It's obvious that a lot of the people in the docuseries are hostile to Christianity, homeschooling, etc. Yes, there definitely are serious problems with Gothard's teachings but the bottom line is that this series is out to bash and mock Christianity and this provided a golden opportunity.
This series makes a mockery of Christian purity values, creation, homeschoolers and Godly living. It was evident that those in the series were not fans of anything Biblical. I am definitely not supporting Gothard's teachings but certainly mixed in were some correct Biblical principles. What a statement on the spiritual condition of those who claim to be Christians yet would be a part of a series that promotes hostility towards Christianity and Godly living.
@12:35 Because IBLP took all those things to an extreme and Gothard had ultimate control over the followers, like a cult. He also abused his power. Nobody in the documentary was hostile towards Christianity. They were rebuking the ways of IBLP and exposing the harm extreme fundamentalism like that is causing. Did you watch it?
I agree with the comment posted June 6 at 12:35 pm. This series is bad mouthing creation, homeschooling, modesty etcetera. Those things aren't bad! Gothard just took them to an unbiblical extreme. Gothard's movement needs to go by the wayside but not the truth that was mixed up with his extremism.
12:35, agree. Not every homeschooler looks like a Gothardite, not every wife who is in Biblical submission gets put in time out by her husband (big eye roll), and not every homeschooler who gets involved in government is trying to take over the world. Wish they would have stuck to the topics at hand instead of pushing an alarmist and false narrative.
I homeschool and I was disgusted as to how they portrayed homeschooling. A few friends in our homeschool program also participated in Teen Pact. They made it sound like the "horrible Christians" want ethics and morality back in America. It looks like Amy has gone the way of loon like the others interviewed
Actually, the series was done pretty well. I wish it had gone a little deeper because there's way more to reveal than what they did. But overall, it's a good series.
The series was done to damage a good family that like all families has made some mistakes down the road. But it goes deeper than damaging families - it is trying to slam any conservative type movement or church.
@1:48 Do you feel that conservative types of churches or movements that abuse women and children should get accolades instead of this type of exposure? Could you explain why you'd uphold them and downplay what you term "mistakes."
I dont agree with any type of abuse in a church setting, whether it be Catholic, or Protestant but this series tried to paint ALL things Christian as a bad thing. Not one interviewer claimed to still be a Christian
I feel bad for Jim Bob and Michelle and all their kids. I really believe they love all their children and believe they are following a righteous path… but this path is so harmful for so many, and they do not seem to see that.
@3:34 You'd have to be blind and maybe living in a cave for the last 40 years not so see that. The Duggars had the unique position to be both immersed in IBLP and also interactive with the outside world through their TV show fame. They were not as isolated as others have been who were either brought up in IBLP or were bringing their children up in it. The Duggars had to have heard the news, and had to have heard what people were saying. Why they ignored the warning signs is the part that stumps everyone, even their own kids. The fact that they still defend IBLP is troubling.
I saw some of Jingers interviews and it sounds like the way she described the teachings and religion, they were not in good conscience and only promoted self harm. Maybe it’s a good thing that some of the sisters are coming out against it.
I agree. The stuff that Gothard taught was way out there. The fact that JB and Michelle still cling to his teachings showed that they were not good parents. This sort of thing shouldn't be handled "privately" as it needs to be exposed for what it is, abusive to children.
Yay Jill!!! So proud of you! You have been put in such a difficult situation. You’ve handled it with class. You’re voice will help rescue others who feel powerless going through what you have.
I Watched shiny faces and had to fast forward through most of the series, it was disgusting. I won’t watch anything where they take God’s name in vain. The f word was used over and over. I feel sorry for Jill.. she seems so unhappy and now she is controlled by Derrick. Hopefully she will read the Bible and get peace through the promises of Jesus Christ.
I don't remember hearing more than one very aptly put F word. Remember, these people were hurt pretty badly by IBLP and are not pulling punches when describing what they went through. If that means using colorful language, that's their choice. Words like that aren't anything I would get upset about.
There's a lot more to this than a "family feud". Bobbye Holt's statements were very disquieting to say the least. The attempt to use a 15 year old girl in the manner she described was simply WRONG. The Holts protected their daughter which saved her a lot of heartache and grief.
@8:25 You should have heard Bobye at Josh's hearing. She was a dynamo. She put Jim Bob's testimony to shame and helped convict Josh. I'm glad she's found the courage to speak out then. It may have cost her dearly, though....
Anon 1:44. Why do you "distrust" the Holts? Every statement Ms. Holt made is collaborated by what actually took place. The Duggars haven't disputed her account in any way.
1:44 She told the same story in court, under oath. It was not lies. Are you referring to what the Holts went through recently? That's a different matter.
@3:19 I guess because some people still cling to the idea of the Duggars being totally innocent, persecuted by media, perfect parents, kids not being grateful for their upbringing, you name it. I feel sorry for those people, because if their eyes can't be opened by something like this docuseries, they never will be.
I wonder if Bill Gothard’s rejection of Dispensationalism had anything to do with this rebellion (some of it justified). We are no longer “under the law”, but in the age of grace, and maybe the Old Testament law was given precedence over grace in his teachings?
@10:23 Now you're getting into MacArthur stuff. MacArthur preaches Dispensationalism, which is as odd as some of the stuff Gothard came up with. And people say Jinger's new church is "nothing like" the old one. A rose is a rose.
The evil and the power going on were already known, which made watching 19KAC all the more interesting - when would that perfect eggshell crack? The first-hand stories in the docuseries were compelling. I know there are others who could confirm what was reported.
Agreed. While the younger children do benefit from more money overall (also more money for food and travel), they still seem to be raised with the same beliefs and lifestyle that resulted in such tragedies for their older sisters. I really feel for the oldest Duggar daughters, assaulted by their brother and forced to raise their younger siblings. The fact that the parents didn't get them help, or remove Josh from their presence and forced them to go on television to say they forgive him is further traumatizing them. All for the sake of money and publicity. A parent should be putting their children first, and that isn't what happened here.
I watched and was saddened by its blatant propaganda. They manufactured in the mind, by manipulation, what they wanted a person to think. They would cut at just the right moment from one comment to the another to make it look as if it was the same discussion. Very good at confusing the watchers. I was impressed at how good they were with their filming tactics. Not impressed with the lies and deception that they created. A good documentary gives both sides. Not just one slated version of their own story.
The thing that most upset me was taking Alert Academy’s videos and lying about them. Calling them a homeschool militia. I almost laughed out loud. It was ludicrous and a huge deception. They did it well and most will buy it hook, line and sinker.
Alert was started by former marines and navy seals. They did start it with some IBLP money and they rent a facility from IBLP. But Bill has never had a hand in it. They are not IBLP. Never have been. Yes, IBLP members do sometimes send their sons there. But so do other faiths. And even atheists. And non homeschoolers as well. That’s just one of the facts they did not care to mention.
I have never been a fan of IBLP. I don’t agree with their teachings. But I know some very genuine people who follow them and they are not abusive and messed up. Many have wonderful godly families.
Unfortunately, the Duggars put a huge target on their backs being on television. And yes, some of their family is struggling. But what family does not struggle. Who of us are without sin. Secret sin. Sin we can hide. Who, as Jesus said is going to “cast the 1st stone?” Be careful. You will be judged as you judge. As you weigh you will be weighed.
Well put! I couldn't agree more. All these judgemental comments from people acting anonymously!! No one is perfect. Everyone will stand before the Creator and give any account of themselves.....
My heart goes out to all the children that have been damaged by Goddard. I am deeply disturbed about mother’s that would put a six month old on a blanket and tease it with a toy and then hit them because they are doing the instinctive thing to grab the toy. That is definitely not from God’s love. I do agree that this is another way to attack Christians but this Goddard needs to be stopped. He is not teaching Christian values.
Scripture says that the devil comes to steal, kill and destroy and that Jesus has come to give us live abundantly. Do the books and video bring glory to God? That is how scripture states we should measure.
We all go through difficult seasons in life where we should be asking ourselves "What does God want to teach me through this test?" Maybe how to forgive, how to become Christlike. "Become like Christ in the test", a quote from Francis Frangipane.
It is very easy to judge (our human nature) but are we willing to lay down our life (and our plans) for what we see wrong. We all fall short of the glory of God.
We should take note that public education is only a few hundred years old or so. For thousands of years, EVERYONE was homeschooled.
I have no plans to watch the video nor read the books as it sounds like they are not going to bring glory to God but instead profit from what the devil has enticed someone with instead of showing a testimony of forgiveness and healing.
Consider what those being used in human trafficking are going through - being passed around to dozens of men each day... young children... and people are fussing about a ministry that doesn't have perfect doctrine? Trafficked children and adults sufferer way more and are usually killed when they are 'used up'. Watch for the true life story called "Sound of Freedom" with Jim Caviezel to be released on July 4. This is what we should be outraged about. May God have mercy on us.
Those who were interviewed in the show were obviously extremely anti Christian, anti Conservative, and anti homeschooling. This was obvious. I did think it unfair how they painted all of these groups with the same brush, biased by their exoeriences. At the same time, I dont really blame them. This is what happens. This is the reason sny Jim Bobs sister raised her daughter to have access to "whatever" I think she said, which Im sure we can all agree, isn't always the best tactic. Its a decision based on emotion.
My theory from watching thr film, is that the whole movement stemmed frompeople qho lived through thr 1960's and the "drugs, sex, and rock and roll" movement which swept acrpss the United States, and included youth culture which to bequite honest, wasnt exactly helpful or or wholesome. Its trama. The whole movement is a trauma response.just as the movemdnt againat everythijg Christian, wholesome, or homeschooling, is also a trauma response.
There are plenty of homeschoolers who arent even Christian, many who are athiest or pagan. It would be unfair to paint all homeachoolers with the same brush.
I was homeschooled. My mother lived theough the sexual revolutiin of the 1960's. She went from a sweet little school to a huge high schiol where they sold acid in the hallways. She suffered abuse which although anonomous, I dont wish to detail, but it was akin to the abuse described in the video by the fundies. My mother wanted to protect us from the world, and homeschoiled us, with a few pages taken out of the fundie book although we werent fundies. My sister hates her, and blames all of her life mistakes on my mother. And as is completely predictable, she in turn, now lets her children do "whatever" , even praising and encouraging any anti conservative values. She has made a lot of mistakes with her kids which she will have to answer for. (No, I dont mean being a liberal.)
I have chosen to see that my mother did her best, and I see the trauma response aspect. I choose to forgive, as I hope my sisters kids will forgive her for her transgressions and i hope my children will forgive me for mine.
I am neutral with my children. I homeschool. My children are in loads of extra curriculars, and we encourage socialization and learning new skills. My husband and I have semi conservative values but we dont attend church.
I hope people wont make assumptions about homeschoolers from this video. I wonder when the documentary about the sexual abuse in the school system is going to come out?
Last comment, no wonder what your personal values are, psycologists all agree thst CONNECTION is key when it comes to raising kids. This needs to be thr focus. The other stuff pales in comparison to that.
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This is awful!! Have these parents not been through enough!! 😕
ReplyDeleteYou can't be serious. Do you realize what the daughters have gone through?
DeleteThe parents? What about the kids?
DeleteYou know what the Bible says about living by the sword. It applies.
DeleteIt's obvious that a lot of the people in the docuseries are hostile to Christianity, homeschooling, etc. Yes, there definitely are serious problems with Gothard's teachings but the bottom line is that this series is out to bash and mock Christianity and this provided a golden opportunity.
DeleteI think it's the kids who've been through enough.
DeleteThis series makes a mockery of Christian purity values, creation, homeschoolers and Godly living. It was evident that those in the series were not fans of anything Biblical. I am definitely not supporting Gothard's teachings but certainly mixed in were some correct Biblical principles. What a statement on the spiritual condition of those who claim to be Christians yet would be a part of a series that promotes hostility towards Christianity and Godly living.
Delete@12:35 Because IBLP took all those things to an extreme and Gothard had ultimate control over the followers, like a cult. He also abused his power. Nobody in the documentary was hostile towards Christianity. They were rebuking the ways of IBLP and exposing the harm extreme fundamentalism like that is causing. Did you watch it?
DeleteI agree with the comment posted June 6 at 12:35 pm. This series is bad mouthing creation, homeschooling, modesty etcetera. Those things aren't bad! Gothard just took them to an unbiblical extreme. Gothard's movement needs to go by the wayside but not the truth that was mixed up with his extremism.
Delete12:35, agree. Not every homeschooler looks like a Gothardite, not every wife who is in Biblical submission gets put in time out by her husband (big eye roll), and not every homeschooler who gets involved in government is trying to take over the world. Wish they would have stuck to the topics at hand instead of pushing an alarmist and false narrative.
Delete@10:11 Too many do though. This is no false narrative. It's always been alarming.
DeleteI homeschool and I was disgusted as to how they portrayed homeschooling. A few friends in our homeschool program also participated in Teen Pact. They made it sound like the "horrible Christians" want ethics and morality back in America. It looks like Amy has gone the way of loon like the others interviewed
DeleteWoo Hoo! Now I know what I’ll be doing this weekend!
ReplyDeleteI have plenty to do too! Water plants, chores and spend time with family rather than watch the TV :)
DeleteI'm not wasting my time on gossip..
DeleteI know what I won't be doing!
DeleteI'm going to church
Delete@9:18 How is that documentary gossip?
DeleteActually, the series was done pretty well. I wish it had gone a little deeper because there's way more to reveal than what they did. But overall, it's a good series.
ReplyDeleteThe series was done to damage a good family that like all families has made some mistakes down the road. But it goes deeper than damaging families - it is trying to slam any conservative type movement or church.
Delete@1:48 Do you feel that conservative types of churches or movements that abuse women and children should get accolades instead of this type of exposure? Could you explain why you'd uphold them and downplay what you term "mistakes."
DeleteI dont agree with any type of abuse in a church setting, whether it be Catholic, or Protestant but this series tried to paint ALL things Christian as a bad thing. Not one interviewer claimed to still be a Christian
DeleteI feel bad for Jim Bob and Michelle and all their kids. I really believe they love all their children and believe they are following a righteous path… but this path is so harmful for so many, and they do not seem to see that.
ReplyDelete@3:34 You'd have to be blind and maybe living in a cave for the last 40 years not so see that. The Duggars had the unique position to be both immersed in IBLP and also interactive with the outside world through their TV show fame. They were not as isolated as others have been who were either brought up in IBLP or were bringing their children up in it. The Duggars had to have heard the news, and had to have heard what people were saying. Why they ignored the warning signs is the part that stumps everyone, even their own kids. The fact that they still defend IBLP is troubling.
DeleteI saw some of Jingers interviews and it sounds like the way she described the teachings and religion, they were not in good
ReplyDeleteconscience and only promoted self harm. Maybe it’s a good thing that some of the sisters are coming out against it.
I agree. The stuff that Gothard taught was way out there. The fact that JB and Michelle still cling to his teachings showed that they were not good parents. This sort of thing shouldn't be handled "privately" as it needs to be exposed for what it is, abusive to children.
DeleteAgreed!!! Very well done but definitely more that needs to be said!
ReplyDeleteI'm watching it now and so far it's very well done.
ReplyDeleteThe daughters involved will never have a great relationship with their parents after this ..
ReplyDeleteI’m so proud of Jill! Her voice will help so many girls suffering abuse within this ideology.
ReplyDeleteYay Jill!!! So proud of you! You have been put in such a difficult situation. You’ve handled it with class. You’re voice will help rescue others who feel powerless going through what you have.
ReplyDeleteIt was a good docuseries. It was done in a respectful manner with a long over due truth that needed to be told.
ReplyDeleteI Watched shiny faces and had to fast forward through most of the series, it was disgusting. I won’t watch anything where they take God’s name in vain. The f word was used over and over. I feel sorry for Jill.. she seems so unhappy and now she is controlled by Derrick. Hopefully she will read the Bible and get peace through the promises of Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteI don't remember hearing more than one very aptly put F word. Remember, these people were hurt pretty badly by IBLP and are not pulling punches when describing what they went through. If that means using colorful language, that's their choice. Words like that aren't anything I would get upset about.
DeleteIs this free, or do you have to pay?
ReplyDeleteIt is available for free if you have an Amazon Prime subscription.
DeleteThere's a lot more to this than a "family feud". Bobbye Holt's statements were very disquieting to say the least. The attempt to use a 15 year old girl in the manner she described was simply WRONG. The Holts protected their daughter which saved her a lot of heartache and grief.
ReplyDeleteThe Holt daughter dodged the proverbial bullet for sure.
Delete@8:25 You should have heard Bobye at Josh's hearing. She was a dynamo. She put Jim Bob's testimony to shame and helped convict Josh. I'm glad she's found the courage to speak out then. It may have cost her dearly, though....
DeleteI dont trust the Holts..
DeleteAnon 1:44. Why do you "distrust" the Holts? Every statement Ms. Holt made is collaborated by what actually took place. The Duggars haven't disputed her account in any way.
Delete1:44 She told the same story in court, under oath. It was not lies. Are you referring to what the Holts went through recently? That's a different matter.
Delete@1:44 She originally told her story under oath and in greater detail. Why wouldn't you trust that? She was the best witness of any of them!
Delete@3:19 I guess because some people still cling to the idea of the Duggars being totally innocent, persecuted by media, perfect parents, kids not being grateful for their upbringing, you name it. I feel sorry for those people, because if their eyes can't be opened by something like this docuseries, they never will be.
DeleteI wonder if Bill Gothard’s rejection of Dispensationalism had anything to do with this rebellion (some of it justified). We are no longer “under the law”, but in the age of grace, and maybe the Old Testament law was given precedence over grace in his teachings?
ReplyDeleteAre J1 and BG in the same prison?
Delete@10:23 Now you're getting into MacArthur stuff. MacArthur preaches Dispensationalism, which is as odd as some of the stuff Gothard came up with. And people say Jinger's new church is "nothing like" the old one. A rose is a rose.
Delete6:47 haha. Ihope so!
DeleteThe evil and the power going on were already known, which made watching 19KAC all the more interesting - when would that perfect eggshell crack? The first-hand stories in the docuseries were compelling. I know there are others who could confirm what was reported.
ReplyDeleteIt definitely was or is a cult. A shame duggar parents put this upon their children.
ReplyDeleteIndeed it is a cult and unfortunately they still don't recognize it as such and are unwilling to leave it.
DeleteU CAN FIND IT FREE ON PRIMEWIRE!!!!!
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame JB &M have not admitted the error of their ways in raising their older children and raise the younger ones differently.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. While the younger children do benefit from more money overall (also more money for food and travel), they still seem to be raised with the same beliefs and lifestyle that resulted in such tragedies for their older sisters. I really feel for the oldest Duggar daughters, assaulted by their brother and forced to raise their younger siblings. The fact that the parents didn't get them help, or remove Josh from their presence and forced them to go on television to say they forgive him is further traumatizing them. All for the sake of money and publicity. A parent should be putting their children first, and that isn't what happened here.
DeleteI watched and was saddened by its blatant propaganda. They manufactured in the mind, by manipulation, what they wanted a person to think. They would cut at just the right moment from one comment to the another to make it look as if it was the same discussion. Very good at confusing the watchers. I was impressed at how good they were with their filming tactics. Not impressed with the lies and deception that they created. A good documentary gives both sides. Not just one slated version of their own story.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that most upset me was taking Alert Academy’s videos and lying about them. Calling them a homeschool militia. I almost laughed out loud. It was ludicrous and a huge deception. They did it well and most will buy it hook, line and sinker.
Alert was started by former marines and navy seals. They did start it with some IBLP money and they rent a facility from IBLP. But Bill has never had a hand in it. They are not IBLP. Never have been. Yes, IBLP members do sometimes send their sons there. But so do other faiths. And even atheists. And non homeschoolers as well. That’s just one of the facts they did not care to mention.
I have never been a fan of IBLP. I don’t agree with their teachings. But I know some very genuine people who follow them and they are not abusive and messed up. Many have wonderful godly families.
Unfortunately, the Duggars put a huge target on their backs being on television. And yes, some of their family is struggling. But what family does not struggle. Who of us are without sin. Secret sin. Sin we can hide. Who, as Jesus said is going to “cast the 1st stone?” Be careful. You will be judged as you judge. As you weigh you will be weighed.
None of us know the whole story.
Well put! I couldn't agree more.
DeleteAll these judgemental comments from people acting anonymously!!
No one is perfect.
Everyone will stand before the Creator and give any account of themselves.....
My heart goes out to all the children that have been damaged by Goddard. I am deeply disturbed about mother’s that would put a six month old on a blanket and tease it with a toy and then hit them because they are doing the instinctive thing to grab the toy. That is definitely not from God’s love.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that this is another way to attack Christians but this Goddard needs to be stopped. He is not teaching Christian values.
Scripture says that the devil comes to steal, kill and destroy and that Jesus has come to give us live abundantly. Do the books and video bring glory to God? That is how scripture states we should measure.
ReplyDeleteWe all go through difficult seasons in life where we should be asking ourselves "What does God want to teach me through this test?" Maybe how to forgive, how to become Christlike. "Become like Christ in the test", a quote from Francis Frangipane.
It is very easy to judge (our human nature) but are we willing to lay down our life (and our plans) for what we see wrong. We all fall short of the glory of God.
We should take note that public education is only a few hundred years old or so. For thousands of years, EVERYONE was homeschooled.
I have no plans to watch the video nor read the books as it sounds like they are not going to bring glory to God but instead profit from what the devil has enticed someone with instead of showing a testimony of forgiveness and healing.
Consider what those being used in human trafficking are going through - being passed around to dozens of men each day... young children... and people are fussing about a ministry that doesn't have perfect doctrine? Trafficked children and adults sufferer way more and are usually killed when they are 'used up'. Watch for the true life story called "Sound of Freedom" with Jim Caviezel to be released on July 4. This is what we should be outraged about. May God have mercy on us.
ReplyDeleteThose who were interviewed in the show were obviously extremely anti Christian, anti Conservative, and anti homeschooling. This was obvious. I did think it unfair how they painted all of these groups with the same brush, biased by their exoeriences. At the same time, I dont really blame them. This is what happens. This is the reason sny Jim Bobs sister raised her daughter to have access to "whatever" I think she said, which Im sure we can all agree, isn't always the best tactic. Its a decision based on emotion.
ReplyDeleteMy theory from watching thr film, is that the whole movement stemmed frompeople qho lived through thr 1960's and the "drugs, sex, and rock and roll" movement which swept acrpss the United States, and included youth culture which to bequite honest, wasnt exactly helpful or or wholesome. Its trama. The whole movement is a trauma response.just as the movemdnt againat everythijg Christian, wholesome, or homeschooling, is also a trauma response.
There are plenty of homeschoolers who arent even Christian, many who are athiest or pagan. It would be unfair to paint all homeachoolers with the same brush.
I was homeschooled. My mother lived theough the sexual revolutiin of the 1960's. She went from a sweet little school to a huge high schiol where they sold acid in the hallways. She suffered abuse which although anonomous, I dont wish to detail, but it was akin to the abuse described in the video by the fundies. My mother wanted to protect us from the world, and homeschoiled us, with a few pages taken out of the fundie book although we werent fundies. My sister hates her, and blames all of her life mistakes on my mother. And as is completely predictable, she in turn, now lets her children do "whatever" , even praising and encouraging any anti conservative values. She has made a lot of mistakes with her kids which she will have to answer for. (No, I dont mean being a liberal.)
I have chosen to see that my mother did her best, and I see the trauma response aspect. I choose to forgive, as I hope my sisters kids will forgive her for her transgressions and i hope my children will forgive me for mine.
I am neutral with my children. I homeschool. My children are in loads of extra curriculars, and we encourage socialization and learning new skills. My husband and I have semi conservative values but we dont attend church.
I hope people wont make assumptions about homeschoolers from this video. I wonder when the documentary about the sexual abuse in the school system is going to come out?
Last comment, no wonder what your personal values are, psycologists all agree thst CONNECTION is key when it comes to raising kids. This needs to be thr focus. The other stuff pales in comparison to that.