Ellie, thank you for making this post and not hiding the truth. You seem such a kind person: can I ask you what do you think of all of this and if you still consider yourself a friend of the Duggars, after all that's come out??
No. Jinger's book was more about her personal journey away from the IBLP. This goes MUCH broader, this details how the IBLP and the Duggars were plotting to destroy American democracy
@5:17 Haven't we known that all along? That's why the big families, so they can out-populate and out-vote everyone else someday. Not the first church (or cult) to think that way. Not the first group to try to get their people elected for their own agenda.
5:17 and 9:25 -- First, we're not a democracy, we're a constitutional republic. And second, from what I understand, IBLP isn't about "out-voting." That could never even happen, as IBLP is a small group of people. Rather, it's about the quiverfull movement.
12:21 What's with the "we're not a democracy" rant from certain folks? What are you trying to prove? The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot.
How horrible for the Duggar parents and the family - I feel incredibly sorry for them. I know there are naysayers but those who have any Christian sympathy should be praying for them. I can't judge motives, but I don't think this kind of thing has anywhere near the same motives as Jinger did.
The time to pray for them was when it was obvious those kids were under IBLP control via their father and mother. My sympathy stops at people who hide behind "Christianity" and use it as the reason to do whatever they want to do, which is usually some very non-Christian things.
The focus of the documentary is on IBLP and its disturbing doctrine. The Duggars happen to be a part of it and they chose to promote those teachings for many years on their TV show. Jim Bob and Michelle pretty much made their bed, as my grandmother used to say. Their eldest's crimes pretty much took down the perfect facade they made for themselves. (Shiny Happy People is very appropriate!) I do feel very sorry for the minor kids still in the home. They never asked to be a part of this mess.
@12:54 Why would you feel sorry for anyone who followed the teachings of Gothard and imposed them on their children the way the Duggars did? You can't see that they are the perfect example of (what they thought were) "good" intentions gone terribly wrong? Even Jinger and Jill can see that.
I truly challenge you to think about this, though. You are referring to christians and christianity in your comment. However, it is abundantly clear that the IBLP is NOT a religion, and is CERTAINLY NOT christianity. As of late, I have been reading the bible myself, word for word to gain an understanding of faith and God, and what he ACTUALLY wanted for his people. There are two stark contrasts I would like to shed a light on. Firstly, Bill Gothard, the "leader" of the IBLP is definitely looked to and treated as a god. Think about it! People went to his conferences, read his books, and followed HIS word about religion. In the bible, God makes it very clear that his people are not to follow or worship any other Gods but himself. God clearly punishes those who are not living according to his word alone. Therefore, should a christian look to Gothard's teachings, or the Bible itself for wisdom and God's word? Secondly, ever notice how the IBLP puts men on a pedestal? I mean, look at Josh. He got away with some disgusting actions! Why? It is partly because he is a male! If you look back at the story of Noah's Ark, God wanted to wipe out all of the human race because of their sins. This means EVERYBODY! God did not discriminate between man and woman! In his eyes, a sinner was a sinner, regardless of gender! The IBLP puts an emphasis on men being superior to women. But does God show favor to either gender when it comes to his judgments? Not at all! The only people saved from the flood were Noah, his family, and his animals in the ark. It wasn't because he was a male (his female family members were in the ark too!) but because he was a genuinely good person.
Why do people follow leaders like Gothard anyway? They're scared and weak-minded, if you ask me. They let someone else do the thinking while they blindly follow. Then they open their wallets so these "leaders" can live lavish lifestyles while the followers struggle. It's such a sinister system. No, I do not feel sympathy for anyone who willingly steps into this. They are to be feared and guarded against.
It's a very fitting title for the documentary. (Now I've got the R.E.M. song of the same name going through my head.) This type of journalism is doing a public service. It's always a good thing when light is shed on darkness and deceit.
I wish this would be on other channels and not just Prime. I cant watch it since I dont have Prime. I would like to watch it in order to hear other points of view related to Bill Gothard and his teachings. Will Any of the adult Duggars watch and maybe give interviews on their take of this docuseries? Jim Bob and Michelle are you for or against this series? Im just wondering what your take would be on this series.
You can find other points of view about Gothard all over the internet. Just be careful of your source. Try starting with the details of a lawsuit brought against him by multiple women, since that was filed in court and is fact, not opinion. The strange Wisdom Booklets he wrote (for homeschooling) are quite a read too, especially if you compare them to mainstream science. Gothard's take on science, particularly biology, is way out there in left field. Then think with an open mind...where are the women in leadership roles anywhere in his teachings? Why do you think women are kept subservient? I believe the documentary will delve into this, and not in a good light.
This is a sorry state. We all know about the problems involving the Duggars. Why didn't the adult Duggars leave when they were of age. Guess they waited to have a salary from the shows.
I hope Derick addresses the issue of salary when he's interviewed for this show. He and Jill have hinted at having to hire a lawyer and threatening a lawsuit to get any pay they felt was owed to them from the original show. I don't know how adult Duggars are expected to leave when of age if they don't have any money. The boys can have jobs, but the girls can't, so they have to marry their way out of the house. Look at Jana, still home.
It seems that some of the Duggar girls are being brats about how they were raised.. not sure about this Bill Gothard guy but Mr. And Mrs. Duggar did their best to raise the kids to be followers of Jesus
While I don't think people should air their dirty laundry constantly, I do think the Duggar offspring have a legitimate complaint. They were thrust onto reality TV and raised in the public eye through no choice of their own. They didn't even get paid for the work they did.
Amen. I did, and believe, most parents do the best that they know how. Beliefs and faith are something that grows as we get older and more mature. Prayerfully, we all will seek God that we may come to understand His unconditional love and grow in all areas of our lives. I say that have a beautiful family and my prayer for them is that they stay in the faith and continue to grow and mature.
@2:29 But they didn't do the best they knew how. Cheerleader public-schooled Michelle wasn't raised the way she raised her girls, so she knew there was another way. The Duggars did what a cult (for lack of a better word) leader told them to do. It's entirely possible to raise good children without so tightly restricting their dress, their hair, what they read, what music they listen to, their dating, their schooling, and their contact with the rest of the world. All the Duggars did was create major anxiety in their children (Jinger admitted this in her book) and pave the way for the oldest son to do more and more wretched things without punishment that actually got through to him. Their "counseling" after things happened was to have the kids talk to people and friends who were just like the Duggars. It was a closed, exclusive circle where secrets were kept and outsiders weren't trusted. You'll see this in the documentary. I don't understand how anyone can say the Duggars did "the best." We know how things turned out, and they weren't the best!
I'm sick of hearing about it, I think Jill and Derrick need to just get on with their lives. I think they like playing the victim. Does Derrick even have a job yet? All they do is whine. I'm not defending the IBLP I'm against that religion (or cult..whatever it is). I just think Jill needs to move on already, we've heard it all before, same old thing.
Derick graduated from law school and immediately got a job (in a D.A.'s office?). That's why Jill & Derick moved out of Arkansas. It's been a few years already. I don't think this show will be the same old thing from them. I don't think they're whining, although I do wish they would apologize for some of the horrible things they've said publicly about other people, people whose lives and views differ from theirs. They have been in no position to judge. I am glad they're out from under Jim Bob's control. That's a start.
Agreed. One of the brilliant things each of us is afforded if we are blessed with our own children is the ability to do things your own way. Parents make mistakes. I do not think there’s any indication Michelle and JB did anything but their very best to give those children a good life. They obviously made a mistake in trusting the leadership of a crooked pastor. But there was also clearly a lot of goodness and love in that home. Maybe instead of disparaging parents, the best thing to do is focus on your own children. I’m not sure constantly talking badly about their grandparents is the best choice. I would’ve loved to have a family like that-warts and all. Derick hasn’t said a nice thing about anyone in about ten years and it’s rubbed off on Jill. They’ve gotten really tough to like. Lotta immaturity. Lotta selfishness. I hoped she’d get it out of her system but she’s 30 years old now….
@12:10 But we haven't heard it all. There are still a lot of unanswered questions, like pay from the show, what happened when the cameras weren't rolling, what kind of disciplinarians JB & M really were, and why they chose to follow Gothard of all people.
5:33 It is sad to think that believing Gothard was the “best” Jim and Michelle could do. That says a lot about the intellect of such parents. What a low bar.
Romans 3:23 says, "And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, 23f or ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.…
Matthew 7:1 says, “Do not judge, or you will be judged. 2 For with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.…
2:26, Why the Bible verses but no comment? What is the point you're trying to get across? The Bible is full of verses of all kinds and I'm sure I could come up with some applicable zingers too.
I UNDERSTAND, 12 10 AM, BUT THIS WAS DONE 2021, BUT THE STORY IF U WILL JUST KEPT ON GETTING BIGGER, SO IT TOOK LOTS OF TIME TO DO THIS RIGHT OK!!!!!!!
JILL U ARE A AMAZING WONDERFULLY STRONG WOMAN, U HAVE BEEN MY FAVE #1 DUGGAR, SINCE, 2007. THEN U HAVE NEVER TURNED YOUR BACK ON THEM, EVER!!!!! U HELPED YOUR SISTER'S WITH HAVING THEIR BABIES, AND THE SPOUSES TOO!!!!!!! LOOK AT LAUREN TOO, JILL GOT HER THROUGH IT!!!! 1 JILL 2 JOY 3 JESSA 4 JAMES 5 JORDON 6 JINGER!!!!!! U ARE BRAVE!!!!
I like how a certain range of people on here dislike and make nasty comments about both Jill and Jinger who decided to leave their family religion. They have to be part of Gothards teachings and it shows when they claim Jinger is still following it. Clearly you never sit through a live stream or educate yourself on their church. For years majority of people wished they kids they would leave. So those who have something to say about it now is likely a follower of the religion themselves. You can deny all you want but we know.
In my opinion, I don't think they are a follower of Gothard, I think they are here to start arguments. There is a private group on FB that discussed this earlier this year and judging by evidence showing on certain comments, trust me.... It's not worth arguing with them anymore. These few individuals have nothing else better to do apparently. Likely Gothards people are staying low and away from social media.
I don't understand what good comes from publicly bashing your parents. If they really want to mend the relationship with JB and Michelle, this is definitely not going to help. Also, it seems a bit hypocritical to be upset with her parents for things related to the reality show when just a few years later they themselves are selling these sensational stories to magazines and TV for money.
We don't know what efforts were made to mend fences with JB and Michelle. A couple of years ago Jill spoke of a "rift" with them. Perhaps whatever efforts that were made to heal the rift failed and they have decided to go on with their lives as they choose.
Revealing the truth ....is not bashing. It's simply reflecting on how they raised their children and telling 'their story'....the same way their parents did. If this shows the Duggar family parents in a 'different way' than they portrayed themselves, that story should be told so people are not deceived.
You might want to do some research on the Gothard cult of IBLP beford saying they are making sensational claims. We are only npw finding out what they endured because they are away from the show.
Ellie, I'd like to hear your comments on the Duggars now that you know what was going on in the family. Do you feel as deceived and lied to as Cousin Amy does? Do you still maintain contact with Michelle and Jim Bob? Do you feel the same about them as you used to? Although you're posting all kinds of viewpoints here, you haven't ever said anything yourself, unless you are one of the Anonymous posters. What's your take on all this?
Modesty, being fruitful and multiply, headship of father/husband, homeschooling and proper roles for women ARE in the Bible, but Gothard took them to an unbiblical extreme and taught them using a wrong foundation. As far as political involvement, there's nothing wrong with being patriotic and getting involved in politics to make sure good laws are passed and bad ones aren't passed. if it wasn't for Christians getting involved in politics, nearly half of our states wouldn't be pro-life right now; but thanks to the Christians, abortion has been outlawed or severely restricted in several states (including my state) saving tens of thousands of unborn lives. The Duggars are very pro-life and Jim Bob hardly attempted to "take over" the Arkansas legislature when he was a representative. Good grief! The Duggars trying to take over America? Laughable! Just for the record, the Bible does not teach us to "take over" governments. We are strangers and pilgrims in this world and seek a better country. Christ's kingdom is not of this world as He made very clear to Pontius Pilate at His trial. That being said, it isn't good to let evil run rampant in the government either. Remember, righteousness exalteth a nation but sin is a reproach to any people. As for homeschooling, use Abeka. They're awesome! And we homeschool because we don't want our kids taught all the unbiblical stuff that is taught in public schools like evolution for example. We don't homeschool our kids to teach them how to take over the world! Good grief!
I don't care what you believe. However, I don't wish to live in a Christian theocracy where everyone else's rights are ignored so I will do everything in my power to oppose your agenda.
Well said! I was homeschooled along with my two younger sisters due to my health issues and being at doctors appointments and hospitalized often,we were sort of poor and could not afford tuition at a private Christian school,and my parents didn't want us to learn un-biblical things in a public school. We used Christian Light Education from 1st-12th Grade and My Father's World for Pre-K4 and Kindergarden. We did not do any of our school on a computer except typing when we learned how to use the computer to type out reports etc. for High School.
Perhaps if I didn't have a transgender son I wouldn't be quite so appalled by your social agenda. Oh well you may win this round as we have to ride out this wave of "us vs. them".
Not everyone in the country is a Christian so making laws that favor Christian interests and beliefs are inherently unfair to those who are not Christians. We find in the states than have banned abortions that OB-GYNs are leaving because they can no longer provide the care that gives their patients the best outcome and hospitals are increasingly reluctant to treat women who come in with medical problems related to pregnancy for fear of reprisals by the state. This has led to a decline in prenatal care and a significant rise in maternal deaths. I doubt that was intended when the bans were enacted. These same states are now enacting laws targeting transgenders who as a group pose no known public health or safety threat. One can only wonder why. I fear this growing political power under the banner of Christianity because there is no way to tell who or what may fall out of favor in the future.
4:59, I agree completely. I don’t think Christian Nationalists really understand how horrible it would be for everyone when religious leaders make & enforce the laws. No one wants the government to be able to dictate what clothes we can wear, which books we read, the type of music allowed, who we can marry. Christian Nationalism isn’t Christianity. Total power is never a good thing.
8:25 If you find abortion, public school, and evolution offensive, tell us what else you find offensive too. Don't be shy, spell it out so we can get the full picture of what you stand against.
What articles are you reading about increase maternal deaths? All the ones I’ve read site Covid, advanced maternal age, chronic heath conditions, mental health/ drug conditions and a few other issues but none mentions the changes in abortion laws. I’ve only heard of a few cases where women were “denied” care. In those cases physicians were quick to blame the new laws but no one every mentions actually conferring with their state attorney general to get clarification of their state laws. That to me is a physician failure.
As a Christian you can't expect us to agree with your liberal agenda that mocks God. Of course we will vote in laws that stand up for the unborn child and it would be silly to think otherwise. That unborn child has a right to life given to it by God and as a citizen of this country. Of course we wouldn't be ok with little children being taught in school that a man dressed in women clothes and being intimate with another man is an acceptable lifestyle and should be celebrated when God calls it an abomination and not long ago it was called body dysmorphic disorder. If someone wants to live like that, then let it be their own issues, but don't force that on us and our children and try and normalize it to us. As a Christian we will never agree with that and we will always agree with what God says about these issues and we will vote for people that have a moral compass that lines up with what God says.
@8:17 You've "only heard of a few cases" because there are HIPAA rules and that is private medical data. The old "It doesn't exist because I've never seen examples of it" logic doesn't work here. The physicians I've heard speak out are quite clear on what the laws prohibit their doing. They wouldn't need to ask the state for clarification. They aren't failing, their hands are tied.
@209 of course physicians are not going to blab about their patients! That being said, what has been in the news (how much of that is true?) has been patients and their physicians speaking out about not providing care because they are uncertain/ gray areas in the law. In those cases they should consult with their AG for clarification. Of course- States should be more specific in the guidelines. Medical and nursing staff need to provide detailed assessments ( that includes writing a narrative to go beyond what computerized click bate offers) of their patients.
@1:41 If you are Christian then you must believe that God made everyone the way they are, faults and all, and ordained all their days before they were born. So God would have set the blueprint for everyone's life, even if it's shocking to you. While we might have freedom of daily choices, our overall life story is preordained by God. Bear that in mind when you are talking about someone else's life, and try to find the lesson in it that God meant YOU to learn in this life. Perhaps that is a lesson of tolerance and compassion. Perhaps you are being tested by God and judged on your reaction. Also as Christians we are called to love one another.
Anon 8:17 Don't blame doctors for not getting waivers on abortions. Before a waiver could wend its way through a cumbersone state bureacy, it's too late for any needed action to be taken. Just acknowledge that these abortion bans have created another problem that those who clamored for them and got them into place didn't foresee.
11:04. Enough of the excuses. There's something WRONG with laws that make doctors consult with a bureaucrat regarding patient care. When doctors are leaving states with abortion bans and hospitals there are closing maternity wards for lack of staff, it's time to admit these abortion bans are affecting overall patient care. The few people who speak out are just the tip of the iceberg, not "click bait".
@OP 8:25 Maybe your kids WANT to learn about evolution and "unbiblical" things like that. Have you ever given them a choice or asked them? Ever caught them looking with wonder at fossils in a museum? Or did you decide they have to think like you and that's that, it's going to be a generational thing, nobody in the family is going to be allowed to learn differently? To stay on topic, look what happened to the Duggars when they thought like that and tried to raise their kids like that...
@8:25/1:41 Your posts remind me of what we used to sing in Sunday School when I was a kid: "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war." Only life is not a war unless you lock your mind and choose to turn it into one. Some of us have found great love and happiness with open minds and hearts instead.
8:25 Unless you're prepared to house, feed, clothe, educate, and protect these unborn lives from abuse for the next two decades of their lives, "Look how many children my law forced to be born!" is nothing to be proud of. If a pregnancy is unwanted, chances are that child as it grows up will be unwanted too. Is that what you want for children, to be born into homes without love? There's already enough grumbling about bad parenting and enough children in trouble. People have no idea what they've just done, but the consequences are coming.
Very interesting perspective that it's better to kill the baby than have the child be unwanted/unloved. Abortion is the most violent, hateful act committed against the most vulnerable among us. No crime more heinous.
Anon 8:33. Although the OP is being somewhat over dramatic, there is an unpleaslant truth there. Unwanted children who seem so valuable to Pro-life groups while in the womb are all too often left to fend for themselves after they're born. They usually end up in foster care where they languish until they "age out" of the system. 18 year olds rarely have the earning power to provide themselves with food, clothing and shelter. That means they become homeless and sometimes turn to a life of crime to support themselves. We need to find a better way. Quality of life is more important than sheer quantity of life.
@ 7:41 I think forcing a woman to remain pregnant when she clearly doesn't want to be is pretty hateful too, especially when a court full of men and state senates full of men decide this is to be. Nobody should have the right to dictate what medical care a woman gets. You're forgetting that a fetus is not a separate biological entity but part of the woman until that cord is cut.
Anon 8:33 Perhaps the OP is talking about how pro-life views appear to place more value on those in the womb than those out of the womb. Forcing women to have babies they don't want and can't care for does lead to a lot of "throw away" children. If we don't have a better way of caring for these unwanted kids we should stop being so outraged over people complaining about women not being about to make their own decisions regarding the outcome of a pregnancy.
Throw away children? What are they when you have an abortion? Why not prevent pregnancy in the first place instead of aborting? If you don’t want a baby and can’t care for a baby then prevent having one. When do we start being responsible for our actions by preventing instead of throwing away a life. And yes they are a separate entity, they are attached but they are a human with a heartbeat and their own dna.
Christian social engineering makes my blood run cold. My brother-in-law's mother was a concentration camp survivor (Auschlitz). Leah didn't speak of the horrors she endured but the numbers on her wrist spoke volumes. Being a Christian doesn't entitle us to enact laws that affect other people's medical care. We don't need state legislatures and Federal judges playing "doctor". Yes, people will make decisions we disagree with but they still should be allowed to make their own decisions not be controlled by others. At the rate we're going I see a repeat of Nazi Germany.
I don't think this family ever functioned the way JB and Michelle tried to make it appear to viewers of the TV show. The last trip to Isael seems to be an attempt at damage control. Who knows what else is going to be revealed with this new series.
@5:27 Of course the family didn't function like that. The first couple of programs, the audience was thinking, "Are these people for real?" The rest of the programs, the audience was thinking, "They're covering up some sort of dysfunction." The savvy audience was proven right.
To all those who are disparaging Jinger and her book: I read the book and enjoyed it. It was clear to me that Jinger's intention was to distinguish the man-made IBLP rules under which she was raised from the Biblical principles of grace by which we have true freedom in Jesus Christ if we trust in him as Savior. Hence, the title of the book Becoming Free Indeed. John 8:36 ~ So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
Thanks for leaving your comments! We answer as many of your questions as we can, but due to the number of comments we receive daily, we are unable to answer every one. Our aim is to post all points of view, but we do not post anything that is profane, insulting, derogatory, or in poor taste.
People will still defend them and say they've done nothing wrong. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteEllie, thank you for making this post and not hiding the truth.
DeleteYou seem such a kind person: can I ask you what do you think of all of this and if you still consider yourself a friend of the Duggars, after all that's come out??
Can't wait to watch it!!
ReplyDeleteWill they really expose "secrets"? What don't we already know about the toxic environment IBLP caused this family?
ReplyDeleteWho knows what will come out? I think the Duggars spent way too much time in the public eye and it's coming back to bite them.
DeleteI don't have Amazon Prime but I did watch the trailer on YouTube, and the word intense comes to mind.
DeleteIs this why Jinger's book rushed to press, before the docuseries came out? Damage control?
ReplyDeleteHow was it rushed? Jinger wrote from her experience. Now its Jill's turn.
DeleteNo. Jinger's book was more about her personal journey away from the IBLP. This goes MUCH broader, this details how the IBLP and the Duggars were plotting to destroy American democracy
DeleteI’d be asking her, not this blog.
Delete@5:17 Haven't we known that all along? That's why the big families, so they can out-populate and out-vote everyone else someday. Not the first church (or cult) to think that way. Not the first group to try to get their people elected for their own agenda.
DeleteThere's always "damage control" when any bad news comes out.
Delete5:17 and 9:25 -- First, we're not a democracy, we're a constitutional republic. And second, from what I understand, IBLP isn't about "out-voting." That could never even happen, as IBLP is a small group of people. Rather, it's about the quiverfull movement.
Delete12:21 What's with the "we're not a democracy" rant from certain folks? What are you trying to prove? The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot.
Delete@12:21 Have you been reading the Federalist Papers lately? We function as a democracy.
DeleteA new show? That's great.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but this one isn't going to be warm and fuzzy like 19KAC...
DeleteIt's not the Duggars coming back! It's more of an anti-Duggar documentary if anything.
DeleteYeah except its not very kind to Jim Bob
DeleteAgree. I love seeing the Duggars on tv. Can’t wait to watch it.
DeleteJim Bob had to approve of the guys the daughters married... wonder if he regrets a few now?
DeleteHow horrible for the Duggar parents and the family - I feel incredibly sorry for them. I know there are naysayers but those who have any Christian sympathy should be praying for them. I can't judge motives, but I don't think this kind of thing has anywhere near the same motives as Jinger did.
ReplyDeleteThe time to pray for them was when it was obvious those kids were under IBLP control via their father and mother. My sympathy stops at people who hide behind "Christianity" and use it as the reason to do whatever they want to do, which is usually some very non-Christian things.
DeleteThe focus of the documentary is on IBLP and its disturbing doctrine. The Duggars happen to be a part of it and they chose to promote those teachings for many years on their TV show. Jim Bob and Michelle pretty much made their bed, as my grandmother used to say. Their eldest's crimes pretty much took down the perfect facade they made for themselves. (Shiny Happy People is very appropriate!) I do feel very sorry for the minor kids still in the home. They never asked to be a part of this mess.
Delete@12:54 Why would you feel sorry for anyone who followed the teachings of Gothard and imposed them on their children the way the Duggars did? You can't see that they are the perfect example of (what they thought were) "good" intentions gone terribly wrong? Even Jinger and Jill can see that.
DeleteWhat were her motives? You must be a close personal friend of hers,so you would know right?
DeleteHow do you know and claim that Jiner had certain motives with her book?
DeleteI truly challenge you to think about this, though. You are referring to christians and christianity in your comment. However, it is abundantly clear that the IBLP is NOT a religion, and is CERTAINLY NOT christianity. As of late, I have been reading the bible myself, word for word to gain an understanding of faith and God, and what he ACTUALLY wanted for his people. There are two stark contrasts I would like to shed a light on. Firstly, Bill Gothard, the "leader" of the IBLP is definitely looked to and treated as a god. Think about it! People went to his conferences, read his books, and followed HIS word about religion. In the bible, God makes it very clear that his people are not to follow or worship any other Gods but himself. God clearly punishes those who are not living according to his word alone. Therefore, should a christian look to Gothard's teachings, or the Bible itself for wisdom and God's word? Secondly, ever notice how the IBLP puts men on a pedestal? I mean, look at Josh. He got away with some disgusting actions! Why? It is partly because he is a male! If you look back at the story of Noah's Ark, God wanted to wipe out all of the human race because of their sins. This means EVERYBODY! God did not discriminate between man and woman! In his eyes, a sinner was a sinner, regardless of gender! The IBLP puts an emphasis on men being superior to women. But does God show favor to either gender when it comes to his judgments? Not at all! The only people saved from the flood were Noah, his family, and his animals in the ark. It wasn't because he was a male (his female family members were in the ark too!) but because he was a genuinely good person.
DeleteWhy do people follow leaders like Gothard anyway? They're scared and weak-minded, if you ask me. They let someone else do the thinking while they blindly follow. Then they open their wallets so these "leaders" can live lavish lifestyles while the followers struggle. It's such a sinister system. No, I do not feel sympathy for anyone who willingly steps into this. They are to be feared and guarded against.
DeleteIt's a very fitting title for the documentary. (Now I've got the R.E.M. song of the same name going through my head.) This type of journalism is doing a public service. It's always a good thing when light is shed on darkness and deceit.
ReplyDeleteI wish this would be on other channels and not just Prime. I cant watch it since I dont have Prime. I would like to watch it in order to hear other points of view related to Bill Gothard and his teachings. Will Any of the adult Duggars watch and maybe give interviews on their take of this docuseries? Jim Bob and Michelle are you for or against this series? Im just wondering what your take would be on this series.
ReplyDeleteYou can find other points of view about Gothard all over the internet. Just be careful of your source. Try starting with the details of a lawsuit brought against him by multiple women, since that was filed in court and is fact, not opinion. The strange Wisdom Booklets he wrote (for homeschooling) are quite a read too, especially if you compare them to mainstream science. Gothard's take on science, particularly biology, is way out there in left field. Then think with an open mind...where are the women in leadership roles anywhere in his teachings? Why do you think women are kept subservient? I believe the documentary will delve into this, and not in a good light.
DeleteThis is a sorry state. We all know about the problems involving the Duggars. Why didn't the adult Duggars leave when they were of age. Guess they waited to have a salary from the shows.
ReplyDeleteI hope Derick addresses the issue of salary when he's interviewed for this show. He and Jill have hinted at having to hire a lawyer and threatening a lawsuit to get any pay they felt was owed to them from the original show. I don't know how adult Duggars are expected to leave when of age if they don't have any money. The boys can have jobs, but the girls can't, so they have to marry their way out of the house. Look at Jana, still home.
DeleteJill is revealing a lot more about her dad as it relates to the TLC contracts and his business dealings with them.
DeleteI am so glad Jinger, now Jill and Amy are speaking out.
ReplyDeleteAmy and her mom never followed that religion..
DeleteBut Amy and her mom saw first-hand things happening in the family that didn't add up until certain truths came out.
DeleteIt seems that some of the Duggar girls are being brats about how they were raised.. not sure about this Bill Gothard guy but Mr. And Mrs. Duggar did their best to raise the kids to be followers of Jesus
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't think people should air their dirty laundry constantly, I do think the Duggar offspring have a legitimate complaint. They were thrust onto reality TV and raised in the public eye through no choice of their own. They didn't even get paid for the work they did.
DeleteHow on Earth are they being brats?! They are the only ones telling the truth!
DeleteAmen. I did, and believe, most parents do the best that they know how. Beliefs and faith are something that grows as we get older and more mature. Prayerfully, we all will seek God that we may come to understand His unconditional love and grow in all areas of our lives. I say that have a beautiful family and my prayer for them is that they stay in the faith and continue to grow and mature.
Delete@2:29 But they didn't do the best they knew how. Cheerleader public-schooled Michelle wasn't raised the way she raised her girls, so she knew there was another way. The Duggars did what a cult (for lack of a better word) leader told them to do. It's entirely possible to raise good children without so tightly restricting their dress, their hair, what they read, what music they listen to, their dating, their schooling, and their contact with the rest of the world. All the Duggars did was create major anxiety in their children (Jinger admitted this in her book) and pave the way for the oldest son to do more and more wretched things without punishment that actually got through to him. Their "counseling" after things happened was to have the kids talk to people and friends who were just like the Duggars. It was a closed, exclusive circle where secrets were kept and outsiders weren't trusted. You'll see this in the documentary. I don't understand how anyone can say the Duggars did "the best." We know how things turned out, and they weren't the best!
DeleteI'm sick of hearing about it, I think Jill and Derrick need to just get on with their lives. I think they like playing the victim. Does Derrick even have a job yet? All they do is whine. I'm not defending the IBLP I'm against that religion (or cult..whatever it is). I just think Jill needs to move on already, we've heard it all before, same old thing.
ReplyDeleteDerick graduated from law school and immediately got a job (in a D.A.'s office?). That's why Jill & Derick moved out of Arkansas. It's been a few years already. I don't think this show will be the same old thing from them. I don't think they're whining, although I do wish they would apologize for some of the horrible things they've said publicly about other people, people whose lives and views differ from theirs. They have been in no position to judge. I am glad they're out from under Jim Bob's control. That's a start.
DeleteDerick is a lawyer! That's definitely a job...definitely more so than his brothers-in-law who only do odd jobs for Jim Bob here and there.
DeleteDerick is an attorney in Oklahoma. BTW, If you are sick of hearing from them, it's a simple matter to not watch the documentary.
DeleteAgreed. One of the brilliant things each of us is afforded if we are blessed with our own children is the ability to do things your own way. Parents make mistakes. I do not think there’s any indication Michelle and JB did anything but their very best to give those children a good life. They obviously made a mistake in trusting the leadership of a crooked pastor. But there was also clearly a lot of goodness and love in that home. Maybe instead of disparaging parents, the best thing to do is focus on your own children. I’m not sure constantly talking badly about their grandparents is the best choice. I would’ve loved to have a family like that-warts and all. Derick hasn’t said a nice thing about anyone in about ten years and it’s rubbed off on Jill. They’ve gotten really tough to like. Lotta immaturity. Lotta selfishness. I hoped she’d get it out of her system but she’s 30 years old now….
Delete@12:10 But we haven't heard it all. There are still a lot of unanswered questions, like pay from the show, what happened when the cameras weren't rolling, what kind of disciplinarians JB & M really were, and why they chose to follow Gothard of all people.
Delete@5:33 Hurt and damage wrapped in "goodness and love" is still hurt and damage. Jill has every right to feel hurt.
Delete5:33 It is sad to think that believing Gothard was the “best” Jim and Michelle could do. That says a lot about the intellect of such parents. What a low bar.
DeleteThey have a right to out their parents if they were raised in an abusive cult.
Delete@5:33. They shpwed on tv what they wanted us to see. It was a fraction and scripted portion of their lives. We have no clue what deally went on.
DeleteRomans 3:23 says, "And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, 23f or ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.…
ReplyDeleteMatthew 7:1 says, “Do not judge, or you will be judged. 2 For with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.…
2:26, Why the Bible verses but no comment? What is the point you're trying to get across? The Bible is full of verses of all kinds and I'm sure I could come up with some applicable zingers too.
DeletePick a verse time?
DeleteSo what? Since the beginning of Christianity people (including Bill Gothard) have used random Bible verses to support their views.
DeleteI UNDERSTAND, 12 10 AM, BUT THIS WAS DONE 2021, BUT THE STORY IF U WILL JUST KEPT ON GETTING BIGGER, SO IT TOOK LOTS OF TIME TO DO THIS RIGHT OK!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteJILL U ARE A AMAZING WONDERFULLY STRONG WOMAN, U HAVE BEEN MY FAVE #1 DUGGAR, SINCE, 2007. THEN U HAVE NEVER TURNED YOUR BACK ON THEM, EVER!!!!! U HELPED YOUR SISTER'S WITH HAVING THEIR BABIES, AND THE SPOUSES TOO!!!!!!! LOOK AT LAUREN TOO, JILL GOT HER THROUGH IT!!!! 1 JILL 2 JOY 3 JESSA 4 JAMES 5 JORDON 6 JINGER!!!!!! U ARE BRAVE!!!!
ReplyDeleteGreat. I don't have Amazon prime and I don't plan to get it. 🙄
ReplyDeleteI so wanna watch this but I don't have Amazon prime.
ReplyDeleteI like how a certain range of people on here dislike and make nasty comments about both Jill and Jinger who decided to leave their family religion. They have to be part of Gothards teachings and it shows when they claim Jinger is still following it. Clearly you never sit through a live stream or educate yourself on their church. For years majority of people wished they kids they would leave. So those who have something to say about it now is likely a follower of the religion themselves. You can deny all you want but we know.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, I don't think they are a follower of Gothard, I think they are here to start arguments. There is a private group on FB that discussed this earlier this year and judging by evidence showing on certain comments, trust me.... It's not worth arguing with them anymore. These few individuals have nothing else better to do apparently. Likely Gothards people are staying low and away from social media.
Delete@2:43 If it's a private group, then you must be a member to know what's going on there.
DeleteI don't understand what good comes from publicly bashing your parents. If they really want to mend the relationship with JB and Michelle, this is definitely not going to help. Also, it seems a bit hypocritical to be upset with her parents for things related to the reality show when just a few years later they themselves are selling these sensational stories to magazines and TV for money.
ReplyDeleteWe don't know what efforts were made to mend fences with JB and Michelle. A couple of years ago Jill spoke of a "rift" with them. Perhaps whatever efforts that were made to heal the rift failed and they have decided to go on with their lives as they choose.
DeleteRevealing the truth ....is not bashing. It's simply reflecting on how they raised their children and telling 'their story'....the same way their parents did. If this shows the Duggar family parents in a 'different way' than they portrayed themselves, that story should be told so people are not deceived.
DeleteYou might want to do some research on the Gothard cult of IBLP beford saying they are making sensational claims. We are only npw finding out what they endured because they are away from the show.
DeleteEllie, I'd like to hear your comments on the Duggars now that you know what was going on in the family. Do you feel as deceived and lied to as Cousin Amy does? Do you still maintain contact with Michelle and Jim Bob? Do you feel the same about them as you used to? Although you're posting all kinds of viewpoints here, you haven't ever said anything yourself, unless you are one of the Anonymous posters. What's your take on all this?
ReplyDeleteModesty, being fruitful and multiply, headship of father/husband, homeschooling and proper roles for women ARE in the Bible, but Gothard took them to an unbiblical extreme and taught them using a wrong foundation. As far as political involvement, there's nothing wrong with being patriotic and getting involved in politics to make sure good laws are passed and bad ones aren't passed. if it wasn't for Christians getting involved in politics, nearly half of our states wouldn't be pro-life right now; but thanks to the Christians, abortion has been outlawed or severely restricted in several states (including my state) saving tens of thousands of unborn lives. The Duggars are very pro-life and Jim Bob hardly attempted to "take over" the Arkansas legislature when he was a representative. Good grief! The Duggars trying to take over America? Laughable! Just for the record, the Bible does not teach us to "take over" governments. We are strangers and pilgrims in this world and seek a better country. Christ's kingdom is not of this world as He made very clear to Pontius Pilate at His trial. That being said, it isn't good to let evil run rampant in the government either. Remember, righteousness exalteth a nation but sin is a reproach to any people. As for homeschooling, use Abeka. They're awesome! And we homeschool because we don't want our kids taught all the unbiblical stuff that is taught in public schools like evolution for example. We don't homeschool our kids to teach them how to take over the world! Good grief!
ReplyDelete@8:25 I'm Christian, I vote every election, and I'm Pro-Choice. Don't lump all Christians together as Pro-Life.
DeleteI don't care what you believe. However, I don't wish to live in a Christian theocracy where everyone else's rights are ignored so I will do everything in my power to oppose your agenda.
DeleteWell said! I was homeschooled along with my two younger sisters due to my health issues and being at doctors appointments and hospitalized often,we were sort of poor and could not afford tuition at a private Christian school,and my parents didn't want us to learn un-biblical things in a public school. We used Christian Light Education from 1st-12th Grade and My Father's World for Pre-K4 and Kindergarden. We did not do any of our school on a computer except typing when we learned how to use the computer to type out reports etc. for High School.
DeletePerhaps if I didn't have a transgender son I wouldn't be quite so appalled by your social agenda. Oh well you may win this round as we have to ride out this wave of "us vs. them".
Delete@8:25 One-third of the US is not Christian. Why would you want laws passed that only cater to Christians? Seems rather exclusive.
DeleteNot everyone in the country is a Christian so making laws that favor Christian interests and beliefs are inherently unfair to those who are not Christians. We find in the states than have banned abortions that OB-GYNs are leaving because they can no longer provide the care that gives their patients the best outcome and hospitals are increasingly reluctant to treat women who come in with medical problems related to pregnancy for fear of reprisals by the state. This has led to a decline in prenatal care and a significant rise in maternal deaths. I doubt that was intended when the bans were enacted. These same states are now enacting laws targeting transgenders who as a group pose no known public health or safety threat. One can only wonder why. I fear this growing political power under the banner of Christianity because there is no way to tell who or what may fall out of favor in the future.
Delete4:59, I agree completely. I don’t think Christian Nationalists really understand how horrible it would be for everyone when religious leaders make & enforce the laws. No one wants the government to be able to dictate what clothes we can wear, which books we read, the type of music allowed, who we can marry. Christian Nationalism isn’t Christianity. Total power is never a good thing.
Delete8:25 If you find abortion, public school, and evolution offensive, tell us what else you find offensive too. Don't be shy, spell it out so we can get the full picture of what you stand against.
DeleteWhat articles are you reading about increase maternal deaths? All the ones I’ve read site Covid, advanced maternal age, chronic heath conditions, mental health/ drug conditions and a few other issues but none mentions the changes in abortion laws. I’ve only heard of a few cases where women were “denied” care. In those cases physicians were quick to blame the new laws but no one every mentions actually conferring with their state attorney general to get clarification of their state laws. That to me is a physician failure.
DeleteAs a Christian you can't expect us to agree with your liberal agenda that mocks God. Of course we will vote in laws that stand up for the unborn child and it would be silly to think otherwise. That unborn child has a right to life given to it by God and as a citizen of this country. Of course we wouldn't be ok with little children being taught in school that a man dressed in women clothes and being intimate with another man is an acceptable lifestyle and should be celebrated when God calls it an abomination and not long ago it was called body dysmorphic disorder. If someone wants to live like that, then let it be their own issues, but don't force that on us and our children and try and normalize it to us. As a Christian we will never agree with that and we will always agree with what God says about these issues and we will vote for people that have a moral compass that lines up with what God says.
Delete@8:17 You've "only heard of a few cases" because there are HIPAA rules and that is private medical data. The old "It doesn't exist because I've never seen examples of it" logic doesn't work here. The physicians I've heard speak out are quite clear on what the laws prohibit their doing. They wouldn't need to ask the state for clarification. They aren't failing, their hands are tied.
DeleteMy goodness 1:41 that stuff really scares you doesn't it. Also, the Constitution doesn't say you're a citizen if you're unborn.
DeleteActually HIPPA has to do with the electronic transfer and security of patient records. What you are referring to is patient confidentiality.
Delete@209 of course physicians are not going to blab about their patients! That being said, what has been in the news (how much of that is true?) has been patients and their physicians speaking out about not providing care because they are uncertain/ gray areas in the law. In those cases they should consult with their AG for clarification. Of course- States should be more specific in the guidelines. Medical and nursing staff need to provide detailed assessments ( that includes writing a narrative to go beyond what computerized click bate offers) of their patients.
Delete@1:41 If you are Christian then you must believe that God made everyone the way they are, faults and all, and ordained all their days before they were born. So God would have set the blueprint for everyone's life, even if it's shocking to you. While we might have freedom of daily choices, our overall life story is preordained by God. Bear that in mind when you are talking about someone else's life, and try to find the lesson in it that God meant YOU to learn in this life. Perhaps that is a lesson of tolerance and compassion. Perhaps you are being tested by God and judged on your reaction. Also as Christians we are called to love one another.
DeleteAnon 8:17 Don't blame doctors for not getting waivers on abortions. Before a waiver could wend its way through a cumbersone state bureacy, it's too late for any needed action to be taken. Just acknowledge that these abortion bans have created another problem that those who clamored for them and got them into place didn't foresee.
Delete@11:04 If you watch a certain news channel, and I suspect you do, then isn't it widely accepted that 100% of what they report there is true?
Delete@9:54 You're so right. It's all about SavE tHe BaBieS! but nothing about the women involved.
Delete11:04. Enough of the excuses. There's something WRONG with laws that make doctors consult with a bureaucrat regarding patient care. When doctors are leaving states with abortion bans and hospitals there are closing maternity wards for lack of staff, it's time to admit these abortion bans are affecting overall patient care. The few people who speak out are just the tip of the iceberg, not "click bait".
Delete@OP 8:25 Maybe your kids WANT to learn about evolution and "unbiblical" things like that. Have you ever given them a choice or asked them? Ever caught them looking with wonder at fossils in a museum? Or did you decide they have to think like you and that's that, it's going to be a generational thing, nobody in the family is going to be allowed to learn differently? To stay on topic, look what happened to the Duggars when they thought like that and tried to raise their kids like that...
Delete@8:25/1:41 Your posts remind me of what we used to sing in Sunday School when I was a kid: "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war." Only life is not a war unless you lock your mind and choose to turn it into one. Some of us have found great love and happiness with open minds and hearts instead.
DeleteWow, I haven't seen such pride in prejudice in awhile. It's nothing to be proud of.
DeleteHere's hoping that Jackson is enjoying his 19th Birthday!!!!!! (Posted by Here's Hoping.)
ReplyDeleteJackson is 18.
Delete@4:42pm: If you check out the birthday tab, you will see that Jackson turned 19 on his most recent birthday which was May 23rd.
DeleteThe birthday list you refer to says Jackson is 20. That makes Johanna 18 like the list correctly says.
Delete8:25 Unless you're prepared to house, feed, clothe, educate, and protect these unborn lives from abuse for the next two decades of their lives, "Look how many children my law forced to be born!" is nothing to be proud of. If a pregnancy is unwanted, chances are that child as it grows up will be unwanted too. Is that what you want for children, to be born into homes without love? There's already enough grumbling about bad parenting and enough children in trouble. People have no idea what they've just done, but the consequences are coming.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting perspective that it's better to kill the baby than have the child be unwanted/unloved. Abortion is the most violent, hateful act committed against the most vulnerable among us. No crime more heinous.
Delete10:53...I can't understand how you can say, "forced to be born'". This is a human being you are talking about, with the right to li
DeleteAnon 8:33. Although the OP is being somewhat over dramatic, there is an unpleaslant truth there. Unwanted children who seem so valuable to Pro-life groups while in the womb are all too often left to fend for themselves after they're born. They usually end up in foster care where they languish until they "age out" of the system. 18 year olds rarely have the earning power to provide themselves with food, clothing and shelter. That means they become homeless and sometimes turn to a life of crime to support themselves. We need to find a better way. Quality of life is more important than sheer quantity of life.
Delete@ 7:41 I think forcing a woman to remain pregnant when she clearly doesn't want to be is pretty hateful too, especially when a court full of men and state senates full of men decide this is to be. Nobody should have the right to dictate what medical care a woman gets. You're forgetting that a fetus is not a separate biological entity but part of the woman until that cord is cut.
DeleteAnon 8:33 Perhaps the OP is talking about how pro-life views appear to place more value on those in the womb than those out of the womb. Forcing women to have babies they don't want and can't care for does lead to a lot of "throw away" children. If we don't have a better way of caring for these unwanted kids we should stop being so outraged over people complaining about women not being about to make their own decisions regarding the outcome of a pregnancy.
DeleteSadly, child abuse deaths are on the rise, according to Health and Human Services. We're closing in on 2000 deaths per year due to abuse or neglect.
DeleteYikes. Where are the people up in arms over those 2000 deaths? Why aren't they marching and rallying to stop that?
DeleteThrow away children? What are they when you have an abortion? Why not prevent pregnancy in the first place instead of aborting? If you don’t want a baby and can’t care for a baby then prevent having one. When do we start being responsible for our actions by preventing instead of throwing away a life.
DeleteAnd yes they are a separate entity, they are attached but they are a human with a heartbeat and their own dna.
@3:21 Even the best birth control can fail with no warning. Even the most wanted of pregnancies can go horribly wrong and need medical intervention.
DeleteChristian social engineering makes my blood run cold. My brother-in-law's mother was a concentration camp survivor (Auschlitz). Leah didn't speak of the horrors she endured but the numbers on her wrist spoke volumes. Being a Christian doesn't entitle us to enact laws that affect other people's medical care. We don't need state legislatures and Federal judges playing "doctor". Yes, people will make decisions we disagree with but they still should be allowed to make their own decisions not be controlled by others. At the rate we're going I see a repeat of Nazi Germany.
ReplyDeleteMmmhmmmm...
DeleteSorry, but if she didn't speak of it, it's hard to believe it even happened...
DeleteHuh..
DeleteDear Ivy: I hope that you are having a fantastic 4th Birthday!!!!! (Posted by Here's Hoping.)
ReplyDeleteHere's hoping that Joy & Austin, are enjoying their 6th Anniversary!!!!!! (Posted by Here's Hoping.)
ReplyDeleteI don't think this family ever functioned the way JB and Michelle tried to make it appear to viewers of the TV show. The last trip to Isael seems to be an attempt at damage control. Who knows what else is going to be revealed with this new series.
ReplyDeleteIt is NOT a new series. It is a documentary.
Delete@5:27 Of course the family didn't function like that. The first couple of programs, the audience was thinking, "Are these people for real?" The rest of the programs, the audience was thinking, "They're covering up some sort of dysfunction." The savvy audience was proven right.
Delete@5:44 Isn't it something like 4 parts? Maybe that's what they were referring to.
DeleteIt took a little longer to unravel than other TLC programs, but unravel it did.
DeleteNothing like watching this family slowly unravel before us. How sad.
ReplyDeleteLAUREN THIS IS FOR U, HEY LAUREN TAKE GOOD CARE OF YOURSELF, PUT YOUR FEET UP!!!! I LOVE U 4/5, SORRY I DON'T REALLY KNOW!!!!
ReplyDeleteDon't say this if your not sure PLEASE!
ReplyDeleteJustine , Don't make comments like above when you aren't positive
ReplyDeleteI AM POSITIVE TO, POSITIVE PEOPLE!!!!! OK!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteTo all those who are disparaging Jinger and her book: I read the book and enjoyed it. It was clear to me that Jinger's intention was to distinguish the man-made IBLP rules under which she was raised from the Biblical principles of grace by which we have true freedom in Jesus Christ if we trust in him as Savior. Hence, the title of the book Becoming Free Indeed. John 8:36 ~ So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
ReplyDelete