Jinger and Jeremy Vuolo
Photo courtesy jingerandjeremy.com
Saturday, June 6, 2020
The Vuolos' New Podcast
Photo courtesy jingerandjeremy.com
200 comments:
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I get the feeling the Vuolos are less about saving souls and more about making themselves famous. They want paid partnerships and they want podcast fame. Matthew 6: "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven."
ReplyDeleteWhy don’t you give the podcast a listen? I think you would take back what you said
DeleteLook at yourself instead of judging others. God is the Almighty and Ultimate Judge, who are we to tell him how to do His job or to even try to do it for him? Something to think about🙏🏻
DeleteWow really...11:42am obviously you did not listen to the podcast... don’t know where you got that from... judge not ... lest you be judged.... please be careful with your words🙏🙏
DeleteThey've really changed since they moved to Cali.
DeleteHow are you saving souls?
DeleteThey are already famous thanks to the show. And to make a lot of money from a podcast, it has to be really popular. I think this is more about sharing God's word than being famous
DeleteSince when is spreading the word to the world a bad thing? I think you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself why you would post such a snarly, jealous comment!
DeleteThe Duggars are the only religious family that I have ever seen that actually practice what they preach. I am in no way trying to be disrespectful but most people are what I call "convenient christians". Personally, I was raised somewhat religious but ...sorry folks, we have science now so until "god" chooses to save abused children and animals instead of making sure that someone wins a playoff game or an Oscar...that is not a "god" that I will worship. Too many horrific things happen in this world and for the most part, religion does more harm than good because it is all about "he likes me better" and "my crazy is better than your crazy" in my opinion. BUT... I just love how the Duggars do what they say and say what they do...one or 2 family issues, does not a family make. During the lock down, I have been been watching the show and I just love this family. If I were ever to find faith again...it would only be because of the Duggars. The only hypocrisy I see is the hunting...I can't imagine being happy about taking the life of an innocent beautiful animal. Ginger, please take down the deer head...it is horrific.
Delete@1:45 You don't need a Bible to tell you that animals feel emotions and pain the same way humans do. After all, we're just another species of animal.
Delete2:38, people were created in the image of God, animals were not. Animals were created for the benefit of man.
DeleteYet another reason I won't believe what the Bible says, if they think it's OK to treat innocent animals like that.
Delete@9:58 Not everyone believes in that system, or that humans are better than animals. Poor animals, if they were created only for human benefit. How do you explain man's benefit from rats, fleas, cockroaches, fire ants, locusts, scorpions, and poisonous snakes, to name only a few such pesky and harmful creatures? What was God going for in those departments? Some kind of human punishment?
DeleteAlso, why would our DNA and RNA be so similar to some animal species, if God wanted a distinct separation of image and dominion? Chimps are our closest genetic relatives, and pig skin is close enough to ours to be useful for human transplant. Did God mistakenly give animals something that man has? Guess the Bible doesn't cover the very real medical practice of xenotransplantation.
@9:58 "Benefit" does not include shooting them for fun or hanging them stuffed on your wall.
Delete3:27, you're missing the possibility that animals could have been created with those similarities to be used for . . . the benefit of man, such as your examples of pigs.
DeleteHELLO! Mankind was created in God's image. We are not animals. There are also plenty of verses telling us to treat animals with kindness and compassion. No contradictions in the Bible. NONE.
Delete@11:37 I'm not sure what version of the Bible you read, but there are plenty of contradictions in it. Spend an evening looking that up. You might be surprised. BTW, humans are placental mammals. You've probably seen that for yourself on 19 Kids and Counting and Counting On! The pregnancy and birth scenes, and the nursing scenes.
Delete7:05, you can call yourself a placental mammal, but I'm not an animal, thank you very much. I don't fall for that evolutionary concept.
DeleteThank you for the post. I'll be sure to listen some time.
ReplyDeleteIs this what they're teaching in seminaries these days? How to be a popular podcaster? How to get one side of an opinion (yours) out to the public, with little to no dialogue or feedback? Seems his time would be better spent actually preaching to real people in a real church, like what he gave up to go climb the fame ladder.
ReplyDeleteWhy don’t you give it a listen before you speak? It’s an encouraging and truth based podcast. Pastors are allowed to use technology to help them further the gospel.
DeleteThey have a freedom and a right to voice their opinion. If people don’t stand up for their opinions now, they might one day lose the freedom to do so.
DeletePlease 11:15pm....they are not giving one sided opinions .... they are giving biblical scripture to back up what is being said.... Jeremy is in Seminary Masters program.... he is a Pastor and gave up nothing ... he is preaching to people that may not go to church but would listen to the podcast ...YES ... he’s climbing that ladder to reach “THE GLORY OF JESUS CHRIST”!! Jeremy and Jinger Keep CLIMBING🙏🙏🙏
DeletePodcasts are heard by real people, some of whom may never step foot into a church. It's just another way to reach out to people.
DeletePerhaps the podcast is past of the training Jeremy is receiving. However, during this pandemic many churches have turned to social media (live streaming, podcasts, etc.) to preach to their congregation. I don't see it as a bad thing. We don't need to gather in a "real church" to hear sermons you know.
DeleteI'm a little puzzled by the criticism of Jeremy. He seems to be trying a new venue to reach people. I don't see it as bad or "wrong" just not the role some viewers of the TV show had cast him in.
DeleteIt’s a good way to reach the younger generations. They’re always listening to podcasts! Plus, it’s safe during coronavirus times!
DeleteUm, how is a podcast different from preaching in a church, other than the fact that Jeremy will be able to reach out to more people this way, and answer questions sent in by people? You don’t talk to “fake” people during a podcast, and you do answer people’s questions more so then when a pastor is preaching to a group of people who then leave once the sermon is over with little to no dialogue or feedback as you say. You completely contradicted yourself in everything you said.
DeleteI used to really like Jeremy and them together as a couple. However, I have to agree with your post. They seem more secular and making themselves known, rather than making Him known. Jinger has really lost her identity in Jeremy. No more photography or personal strengths or interests of hers at all ever mentioned again. My opinion of them is rapidly changing.
Delete1:15- A podcast isn't really any different from TV or radio evangelists. In my experience, any church or religion is all about preaching what congregants should think and believe with little to no dialogue or feedback. Doesn't matter if it's from behind a pulpit or a podcast. You're supposed to pray, pay, and stay quiet.
Delete1:15, when you are preaching in front of a church, you aren't having a dialogue either. You're getting out your message, which is the same as doing a podcast, preaching on the radio, preaching on Facebook Live, preaching on tv, or preaching on a street corner. They are all different modes of communication, with varying audience numbers and varying amounts of feedback. Not all preachers have pure motives, unfortunately, but it's also unfortunate to presume to know someone else's motives.
DeleteJeremy's going to a very serious seminary, during which time he's not ab;e to pastor a church, so a podcast is a great fit. If you don't like what he has to say, don't listen.
DeleteDo any of you really understand the ideology that Jeremy adheres to with his church affiliations? Have you read that statement on social justice that he and other pastors signed? It's very timely, given the events of the last week. You might be surprised. And you probably wouldn't sign it yourselves.
Delete@9:36 As long as you agree with that opinion? What if it's an unpopular opinion, or something you stand against? Do you defend their right to speak equally? Or do you get outraged?
DeleteAnon 3:08 A podcast is A lot different then a Church. A Church creates a much more intimate relationship with its parishioners. A Church is where we meet face to face, where we form friendships and relationships with one another. A place where we all know each other and have bonds and commitments with each other. We have ministries we are involved in together etc. A podcast is totally different, and requires hardly any commitment to people. You will never have these two show up to your home when there is a death or a sickness in you or your family. You are just someone typing a question here and there to people who may or may not type anything back to you. I would never put a podcast into the same category as a Church or you will be really disappointed. There are countless podcasts online because it's easy to do and requires little to no discipline or commitment. A Pastor in a Church well now that's a high calling and requires giving of yourself to others.
DeleteI feel a podcast might be a way to reach the younger, tech savvy audience. It doesn't hurt to use any means possible to spread the the Word of God.
Delete3:19 How young are we talking here? I am 60 and I certainly know how to listen to a podcast!
Delete@6:36; Yes, I do defend everyone’s right to speak equally. Even if it’s something I stand against, something that goes against my convictions, I still want everyone to have the right to defend their opinions and have them respected. It’s part of living in this country-although I know not everyone wants opposing opinions voiced. What about you?
DeleteWhat a blessing! A new baby girl on the way and a podcast. I'm truly happy for them. Wishing nothing but good things for them. God bless
ReplyDeleteA new venue for Jeremy and Jinger. I'm sure they'll do well with it.
ReplyDeleteAwaiting to hear what they will do with this tool???
Delete3:53, check it out for yourself. I listened to one of the episodes today.
DeleteI for one will NOT be checking it out. I unfollowed them immediately after their post in giving money away to people who follow them along with a whole list of people and businesses to follow. This is a pathetic way to get more followers from so called Christians. They are definitely not people I care to “look up to.”
DeleteJ and J do not live a life anything like mine, and so I won't be listening to their advice. Maybe if they both had regular jobs and participated in the world instead of living in a bubble, and maybe if they weren't so full of themselves and their special life and superior beliefs, I would listen. To me, it's fake and all for money and fame.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with you. My husband and I are both hard workers as are our friends and family and we are Christians who believe that being an example to our children by showing them how to work hard and he a Godly blessing to others by leading by example. How these reality show people don't actually hold jobs but always seem to be in classes think that being lazy is a good example to the younger generation is mind boggling to me. What and how they live is nothing that works in the real world.
DeleteI agree with you 9:43. If you delve deeper into what church Jeremy has aligned himself with (or even the church where Jinger came from), you might have even more concerns.
DeleteMaybe you should give it a try before judging the content.
DeleteWe were never made for fame. Who of us can handle it without getting a big head? The whole family has radically changed from its humble beginnings.
DeleteWow, some of these comments sound prideful. Does it occur to any of you that some people go where God leads, and that's different for each of us?
DeleteAnd some people get where they are because they have a knack for salesmanship and marketing (including themselves and their family).
DeleteI don't understand the two negative comments. I feel it is an excellent way to share the gospel. Podcasts are not something I've seriously considered until now. This morning I listened to them during my devotional time. I was truly blessed by both messages and will continue to listen to The Hope We Hold. I found both messages to be refreshing, easy to listen to, excellent format/dialogue and the scripture references were excellent. I was able to easily look up the bible verses as I listened. I wish Jeremy and Jinger the best in their new ministry.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations on your new daughter, and, for the podcast as well. I think you may reach some who are not "attracted" to the traditional church and may be intimidated to ask questions in a public setting. This is a way that persons can ask and get answers to their questions. This also might be a way to bring the "younger" generation back to the church. My opinion only.
ReplyDelete11:30 The people I know who have rejected organized religion have very good reasons for doing so, myself included. We don't need to be "reached out" to or brought back to a church. It's very presumptuous and condescending to think they do, IMO.
DeleteI have to agree somewhat with Anonymous @6:02. In my 35 years as a Christian, it's been my experience that quite a few people who've left "traditional Church" have been emotionally/spiritually harmed by people calling themselves Christian but not walking out Jesus Christ of the Bible. By "traditional Church", I mean most major mainstream denominations as well as some cults masquerading as Churches who publish and advocate secondary (or "lost") books (whose very presence is contrary to what the bible says). I'm privileged to have known two Church counselors as well and many of their clients have been harmed by so-called Christians, who are not following the actual principles of the Bible, but their own interpretation (according to the individual's justification for their sin or those of a leader and a handpicked council). The best thing an actual Christ follower can do is to read the Bible for himself/herself and begin applying the principles in it in his or her own life...more walk, less talk (which is exactly what Jesus did). Christianity has been regularly hijacked since Jesus was resurrected by people seeking to use it for selfish personal gain (money, fame, power)...which is why Jesus told us in advance, by their fruit we will know them. Our Pastor told us 35 years ago, "You better read your Bible for yourself and know what God actually says. Not listening carefully to God and knowing is how Eve was able to be deceived and how Jim Jones got 200 people to a forest in Jonestown, Guyanna and killed them.". God, Himself, said, "My people perish for lack of knowledge." Please don't judge anyone who may not be sitting in a "traditional Church"; you have no idea what they've experienced. Secondly, a large of number of those regularly sitting in Church are religious and don't have an actual one-on-one relationship with God.
Delete11:11 PM I am one of those who have been tremendously hurt by church members. I have been through church splits, pastors who did the opposite of what they preached,even one pastor who just quit and the church folded. I was devastated about that event. I have not been to church in 5 yrs. I think about going sometimes, but I don't want to go through trying to find a church home for the 5th time. It really hurts to find a church, start to make friends and start serving in the church, and then BOOM. A person can only take so much of church hypocrisy.
DeleteAnonymous @7:35PM- I'm Anonymous @ 11:11 and I'm so sorry that's been your experience. We've experienced church splits, pastors having affairs, and pastors leaving. We've seen and heard so-called Christians treat others pretty badly. We understand the struggle to trust "Church people" and find a new Church home. Our counselor advised us to continue reading our Bibles for ourselves and spending time with God one-on-one for now. In the meantime, we do watch Church online (Church on the Move Tulsa OK). Just know that even when people fail you (and all people fail at some point), God never fails and He's promised to reedem all the bad experiences you've ever had. The bad experiences you (and we've had) were not Him or His fault; clearly those people were not following God because He doesn't behave that way. He does have a Church home for you-it's won't be perfect because humans never are, but it will encourage you and build your relationship with Him and be founded on Him. Praying for you, my friend.
Delete11:11 thank you SO much for your encouraging words to me.
DeleteWe also need to remember that just because someone is a Christian, doesn't mean they are not a sinner. It takes time, work & struggle to overcome who we were and to become Christ-like. I think people think it's instant & it's not.
DeleteI guess I'm more than a little perturbed by this couple. Jeremy is a student in Seminary School and Jinger is a wife and mother; not exactly income-generating positions. Jeremy and Jinger should be very busy people studying and caring for their child and their home but I guess they don't see it that way. They sure do like the limelight. I need to remember that this couple's income comes from their TV show, selling pictures and stories to magazines, and fees from speaking engagements. That's not the reality I'm looking for. I'm not interested in their podcast. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteMe either. Jeremy should return to what he loves-soccer. I feel this pastoring is fake.
DeleteI don't think he got enough of that spotlight he loves as a soccer player on a minor team. I doubt he'd go back. He's not in soccer shape any more either.
DeleteAnon 3:17. Since Jeremy is too old to play professional soccer, he has to make a living doing something else. Being a pastor is the career path he chose.
DeleteHe could be a soccer coach or commentator.
Delete@11:54am Right on!! You said exactly what I’ve been feeling.
DeleteIt's becoming more about fame than anything else. What values.
DeleteThese two are taking steps away from modest, Godly living and more towards being celebrities and fashion models. I'm surprised that pastor school he's 'attending' isn't getting after him about this.
ReplyDeleteI think he fell in love with the cameras. I often wonder what the congregation he left behind secretly think as they watch all this new lifestyle and reality show, podcats, high fashion living in LA, plays out in their once Pastors life. Hmm the limelight be of money.
Delete4:51- The school he attends is getting free publicity and exposure from the Vuolos. They’re probably eating it up.
Delete4:51, maybe you should actually listen to their podcast before you judge. The episode I heard today was encouraging and down-to-earth.
DeleteWe noticed that he gave up his Pastoral position in his Church but didn't give up the reality show. I think that speaks volumes. What was so bad about his humble modest life of being a Pastor of his Church pre-Duggar? I don't know of any Pastor who lives out his life on a reality show. What Pastor would do this?
DeleteHow does that speak volumes? He was on the show when he was a pastor too.
DeleteHe wasn't on the reality show long before he left the Church. I can't imagine my Pastor doing!!! Good grief that would be terrible!
DeleteHe was on the show for several years, from the time they started courting until now. He was a pastor that whole time.
DeleteI thought Jeremy was a Pastor, did I miss something? lol. I guess I haven't kept up because I thought he had a Church and was a Pastor or was that Ben?
ReplyDeleteYou're a tad behind the times. ;) He started seminary last year.
DeleteDear Garrett: I hope that you are having, a Fantastic 2nd Birthday!!!!
ReplyDeleteThe question remains—why doesn’t anyone associated with this family WORK?! It’s like they’re allergic to work.
ReplyDeleteAppearing on reality TV IS their job.
DeleteThey’re not allergic; they don’t need to work in the traditional sense. Reality tv pays the bills!
DeleteMost of the guys are self-employed and/or in the family business. I'm surprised you haven't caught that if you've been watching for a while.
DeleteThey work very hard on pretending to work.
DeleteYou all made me laugh with your replies—thanks!
DeleteThe amount of their lives we actually see is so minor. And no one wants to watch them work. We watch for births, & weddings & to see children grow. At least those who are watching because they like them.
DeleteHm. For an aspiring mega pastor Jermy sure found himself a great little tv wife with a baked-in fan base, didn’t he?
ReplyDeleteLOL yeppers!
DeleteIDK. He seems to fit in with the REST of the Duggars and their aspirations.
DeleteIt's too bad it's not on you tube so more people can see. Not everyone is able to get all those apps.
ReplyDeleteIt is on YouTube, It's also on Spotify which is free if you are willing to liste to their ads
DeleteOh, actually it is on YouTube! That’s where I listened. 😊
DeleteThe only thing on YouTube is audio and no video. It needs video. People with learning or hearing disabilities need to see the person speaking.
DeleteIs there video or only sound? I can't find video or figure out how to turn it on. I have never done this before so could use some help.
DeleteBoy these two are sure in the media an awful lot anymore. Sheesh thirsty much?!!!
ReplyDeleteJeremy loves to hear himself talk and barely lets Jinger have a word. If it wasn’t for her, nobody would know of him.
DeleteOh my gosh....are we jealous or just being unkind? I think we're assuming a lot thinking that they are not taking care of their child and home. From what I understand, seminary (not a pastor school)is quite challenging and perhaps the blog gives him a break from the intense studies. As I recall, seminary is an intense study of the Bible in English and Greek. I wouldn't feel at ease with a pastor, like some of the televangelists, who never attended seminary. Just a thought or two.
ReplyDeleteI remember several people here saying that Jeremy wouldn't stay in that humble little church in Laredo for long, that Jeremy's heart wasn't in it, that he wanted bigger and better, that he wanted to be around more prominent people and more spotlights. Turns out that was correct. I get the feeling they're not done yet and a podcast is only another step towards what Jeremy really wants - megachurch and megafame. I don't think he'll stop til he gets that, and Jinger is going to follow along like the obedient blonde-haired fashion-conscious wife and with multiple perfectly-dressed children to complete the picture. Modest?? There hasn't been that in awhile now. Who said someone was following them lately taking pictures? Now we see why.
ReplyDelete6:47 It might be true that Jeremy wants a megachruch and megafame, however, a pastor has to have some charisma and be an engaging speaker to attract that kind of attention.
DeleteI completely agree with this!
Delete@5:18 Charisma? What's wrong with the strong quiet type leading his flock instead of the loud showy type? The church where I grew up had the strong quiet type for over 30 years and everyone loved him. When he retired a lot of people left the church when someone who was more of a showman, the way Jeremy is, was put in. It's not all about attention and charisma and engaging. It's about leadership and caring. Those megachurches are very impersonal, too.
DeleteJesus didn't need publicity or charisma to attract a crowd. As a matter of fact, reading Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, He was often trying to get away from the crowd to spend time alone with God. LOL He didn't model himself after the "mega-Church " leaders of the day(in hairstyle/clothing style, or sermon style= cookie-cutter fashion). He didn't need to work the crowd like a cheerleader ("C'mon somebody!" or "Can I get an amen?") or network with the top spiritual leaders of the day (who all merely reflected each other, rather than glorifying God). Please don't tell me it was because he was Jesus either. Jesus said the same Holy Spirit that was in Him is in a believer and that [actual, true] followers would do even greater works because Jesus was going to His Father in Heaven. The people were drawn to Jesus because He reflected God and God's heart.
DeleteAnon 11:23. Oh Jesus had plenty of publicity. He healed the sick and they spread the word. Really drew the crowds.Of course Jesus fell out of favor with the masses because he wasn't the military leader they wanted to throw off the hated Roman government. Don't try to rewrite the Bible.
DeleteAnonymous @ 11:23- Not sure exactly how you misinterpreted my post (11:23) and projected something into it that wasn't there. I've taught the Bible since 1991 and History for the last 6 years. Every word of my post was both biblical and historical. Jesus never needed to hype the crowd or advertise for publicity (it followed him),and he wasn't looking for fame or pursuing fortune. He just did what God told Him to do-nothing more, nothing less. And yes, the masses were looking for a military "king" to overthrow the Roman occupiers (they mistakenly thought that was their greatest need). They crucified Him because they mistakenly thought he was another in a long string of false messiahs who failed to deliver them from oppression BECAUSE they were not listening to what God had been telling them for 400+ years. Just as they'd told God before (with Saul), they didn't want God to lead them, they wanted a man for a ruler (like the other nations around them)...setting the stage for the Roman Empire to oppress them and humble them. They actually rejected God twice in their arrogance.
DeleteI find this entire comment thread fascinating. I have actually never watched the Duggar's tv show, nor read any of their books, but I occasionally look at their blog because I am interested in their large family and what they are up to. I don't understand why the majority of comments on here are so negative. Why do people take the time to read this blog and then make negative comments? I've never read a blog I wasn't interested in. It seems like a huge waste of time to read this blog simply to make nasty comments about people you have never met. Why not find a blog you like and that reflects your own values, and then make positive, encouraging comments, instead of bashing someone else's life? It would be much more productive...
ReplyDeleteAs for the podcasts - they are so common right now, why is anyone criticizing them? It's basically like listening to the radio. Both my pastors are posting podcasts right now. I enjoy them. It's certainly more productive than a lot of other things...
10:23 Perhaps you should watch the show, or pay attention to other sources of information about the Duggars, so you know what everyone is talking about? You asked, just trying to help.
DeleteI think you missed my point completely. I don't want to watch their show. Why do other people watch their show if all they want to do is criticize them. It seems a huge waste of time...Find something productive to do with your time...
DeleteIt’s because all these years, the Duggar's have told us one thing and now doing another. They have showed us how they do things, how they believe, what their convictions are and now.....it’s nothing like what they’ve said. AND YES, it is understandable to do your own thing when you grow up move on with your life. HOWEVER, when all this time you’ve been echoing everything you’ve been taught growing up AND TELLING the viewers that’s what THEY BELIEVE as well. Well then it makes you wonder what their truth has been all along. They’ve preached one thing and do another.
Delete10:23 -- I used to watch the show and now only occasionally, and I agree with you. I think some people get a charge out of criticizing. Otherwise why even visit this website if you only have negative things to say about this family?
Delete@ 11:42 An equally valid question is why would anyone accept everything they read without having their own opinions? If you don't agree with everything this family does (and let's face it - there's plenty not to agree with), that's somehow wrong? You can't express your opinion here, only people who agree can? Should we whitewash the entire Internet like that, so there's never any disagreement? That's not normal human behavior. We're supposed to think independently, otherwise we're merely clones of each other in a bland society. It's the ones who question and go in other thought directions who move society ahead!
DeleteJeremy was already a pastor. So why is he now going to school to become something he already is? It makes no sense and seems a real waste of time and money because that school of his sure isn't free.
ReplyDeleteJeremy was a Pastor of a small church, he is seeking a master's degree in seminary at this time. More education is a good thing.
DeleteI wholeheartedly agree. He was already preaching. Possibly he is one of those career students.
Delete9:10pm Jeremy is an ordained minister... He is now getting his Masters Degree in Divinity.... You ask why..... because as a minister he wants to know and study the word of God...as for how his family (Jeremy and Jinger) are paying for this...well it really is non of our concern. A lot of Christian colleges offer free tuition if you are a pastor or if you are a pastor’s child.
ReplyDeleteThey don't offer though free houses, especially in LA area. Jeremy gets very preferential treatment.
DeleteSo glad you know the owner of the home and have inside information.
DeleteIt's a big leap from "free tuition" for children of pastors to free housing for them. Many Christian colleges do offer scholarships, tuition assistance based on need and to the family members of pastors but most don't have the resources to provide free housing. IMO Jeremy is getting special treatment because of his connections.
DeleteYou know you can look up the owner of any property in the US. It's public record.
DeleteTo 12:54PM.... how are you aware that they are getting free housing and if they are what concern is it to you? We should be Praising God for for giving them the opportunity to further study God’s word
DeleteThe only people I know who get free housing while they're going through seminary are those who live with their parents (or maybe their in-laws).
DeleteI like Jeremy's journey. Professional soccer player, then pastor. Marrying into a popular TV family. Being on TV himself. Moving to LA. Living in an expensive house for free. Going to tons events in LA. Now having own podcast. I see his future at like "Good Morning LA" soon, being an anchor or something.
ReplyDeleteTo9:01PM....... Jealous are you? You seem to have the taste of bitterness. When you honor the Lord and do his will of spreading God’s word.... God is so wonderfully pleased with us and blesses us... God is good all the time.... You sound like you are unhappy in your life... please listen to their podcast .. it’s amazing and maybe you’ll hear something that might help you in your life journey.
DeleteI refuse to believe that God blesses some people and not others!!! People use that phrase only when things are going perfectly. What about all the good people who are down on their luck? Why aren't they "blessed" with material things too? Guess God doesn't like them, by that logic.
DeleteWhy is it that whenever a poster asks the difficult questions that fans have no real answer for, the fans here always resort to personal attacks (the favorite card to throw seems to be the jealousy card)? First thing you learn in debate class people: If you can't answer the question(s) and move from the subject to attacking your opponent, it's because you know you can't support your position with facts...and so does your opponent and anyone else witnessing the debate. Stick to the subject please. You should be very careful about assuming that people are prospering because they're doing the will of God and God is blessing or favoring them. The Bible says that even the wicked may prosper for a time (Psalm 73:3, Jeremiah 12:1). People can have a God-given gift for increasing wealth, business, and networking and still use those gifts to enrich and promote themselves, rather than reach the unsaved, feed the hungry, and take care of the poor on the large scale they were supposed to with the gifts, talents, and finances God intended.
Delete10:36 First, you judge and insult, then inform the person that their problem is that they don't please God. They must obey, so God will be good to them. Then, you insult again and imply that they need help. Is this Christian love and "witnessing"? Or is this from someone who thinks they are better than others and have all the answers? I want to let you know that you are not "honoring the Lord and spreading his word"-- you are being condescending and belittling, and it is a huge turn-off.
DeleteAmen 11:38. What have we ever seen the Duggars do for others but take missioncations to hand out candy and paint fingernails? All while they're carrying expensive cell phones and buying more planes and real estate. Meanwhile I know a 12 yr. old who got a national award for raising $50,000 for the food bank. Your move, Duggars.
Delete10:36. Your "gospel of prosperity" is what drove me away from organized Christianity. Not everyone has a good life filled with blessings. Some of us have many difficulties and hardships through no fault of our own. No matter what church I attended I was always looked down on because I had problems that the others in the church seemed to think were due to some fault within me. I got sick of the judgment and moved on.
DeleteI wanted to reach out to the person who commented at 10:24am on June 14th. I am so very sorry to hear that you have been hurt by Christians in the past. That breaks my heart. It sounds like you attended churches that teach what is known as the "prosperity gospel." It's a dangerous teaching that says, in a nutshell, if you follow God, you will have a wonderful life with no challenges. And it's simply untrue and unbiblical. I have a lot of experience with the prosperity gospel due to my background and family history, and it makes me very sad to see it being spread. But I want to assure you that while prosperity gospel churches might get more press and attention, the majority of Christians do not believe it. The Bible teaches that we will have difficulties in this life, but God promises that He will NEVER leave nor forsake us. He will walk with us through the good and the bad, and He will always work things together for the good of His children. So even when Christians have trials, we can rest assured that God will use them for good in our life. And He will give us a peace that surpasses all understanding, so that we can have peace even in the midst of the storm. That peace is hard to describe to those who have not felt it, but it is such an amazing gift! And those who accept God's free gift of salvation in Jesus Christ and choose to follow Him will spend eternity in heaven. So even though we live in an imperfect world, we are assured that our tears will soon be wiped away and our pain and suffering will be gone. We have a wonderful Savior, indeed! I would be happy to answer any questions you may have if you email me at NashvilleWife@gmail.com. No pressure. :)
DeleteEllie
Lily and Ellie ..... Beautiful and well said ... if people would only know the true Savior.... He gets us thru the difficult times and rejoices with us in the good times ... Being a Christian doesn’t promise us a “Rose Garden” it’s the hope in Jesus Christ to get us thru the thorns in life. I’m so sorry that people look at “ Christians” in that light....Jeremy and Jinger are not that type of people ... they truly love the Lord and want to show others how wonderful Jesus is and how Jesus can help people in their time of need🙏
DeleteLily and Ellie: Perhaps the greatest peace comes from freedom from a religious belief that insists everyone is "born a sinner" and that unless you accept the "free gift" of salvation you will eventually die and be tortured forever. hmmm?
DeleteEllie- I'm not the original poster, but Thank You because what you said is true. We've had some experiences with extended family regarding that "prosperity gospel" teaching. If I may, I'd like to add that God's plan encompasses redeeming every bad thing that sin and death have stolen from man and done to man and the earth. It begins with accepting Jesus (His sacrifice for your personal sins)-you get a new nature, God's nature. As you learn how much God loves you, you love Him too. When you start getting to know Him, you learn to think like God does. The more you know and love Him, the less you want to sin. You'll still have good days and bad days because you live in a sinful world and you're still learning. But the difference is that God is there with you, wanting to walk you through,strengthen and encourage you (He makes His strength, ability, stability, wisdom, and knowledge available to you). At the end of this earthly life, death doesn't get the final word. Death itself is undone by the resurrection (just as Jesus rose from the dead, He will give life to our mortal bodies). The last step in God undoing all that sin and death have done is the new Heaven and the new earth that God has waiting to reveal (restoring what was lost by Adam and Eve in the Garden).
DeleteAnd let’s not forget that simply believing in god with a supposed promise of an afterlife in paradise absolves believers from doing right in THIS life.
DeleteSo many are disgusted by the hypocrisy of SO MANY Christians—especially evangelicals like the Duggars—who tell everyone around them how to live without the necessary INSIGHT into their own behavior that is needed to live without hypocrisy. Clinging for dear life onto Trump is one of many examples that are too numerous to list here.
How did you first hear about god, Ellie? From god? Or from a human being?
I, and so many other Ethical Humanists like me, chose to focus on doing good in THIS life. I want to treat others well and lead an ethical life FOR ITS OWN SAKE—because it feels good to do and be good. It feels good to help others. We don’t need a god.
I've always had the feeling that the Duggars are followers of the prosperity gospel, whether they said it on their show or not. There sure have been enough signs.
Delete9:42 I THOUGHT all of this happened to me. I tried so hard to have the relationship, painfully so, until I finally had to admit it was one-sided and anything I experienced in return "from God" was my own imagination, emotions, or something someone told me. God did not walk with me and encourage me and provide all the things that you say would be available to me. I BEGGED and CRIED OUT and GOT NOTHING for many years. It was torture. What do you say to that? I suppose I just did something wrong, so God would not respond to me? Please be careful when you tell others what they will experience, because you only know the "good" stories and dismiss the rest. Think about it. You will not believe me, but assume I am just lost, and not someone who became born again, followed all the steps you listed, yet somehow God did not show up to care for me. I stopped trying to reach out to him--it was too painful.
DeleteHi KitKath,
DeleteI would love to hear more about ethical humanism, and I would also love to help answer any questions you have about Christianity. To answer your question about how I first heard about God, I heard from someone who witnessed to me. But from there, I prayed for God to forgive my sins, and I dedicated my life to serving Him. Thus began my personal relationship with the Creator of the universe. It is the most wonderful relationship that a person can have.
Ellie
@Ellie. Maybe it's wonderful for you but it leaves me feeling empty, and the church rituals feel ridiculous, right from praying on up. I'm not alone. Look up Secular Humanism or Humanism.
Delete@12:39 I hear you. I hope you have good friends because I've always found those to be the most helpful in my life when times got tough. No church and no religion could fill their positions or offer what they gave me, freely and with no expectations or lectures or guilt, only good suggestions and support.
Lily and Ellie are offering KitKath wonderful Truths. I think one of the best ways to convey what faith is like is to share true, personal stories of ones own encounters with Christ. Some people choose to believe in Jesus Christ and accept his free gift of salvation as a sort of "fire insurance"...meaning, they want to have a pass to Heaven and avoid the fires of Hell. That is a very poor reason to "believe". First, taking the first step or as philosopher Søren Kierkegaard, describes making a leap of faith means at some point you ascent to what appears irrational - and in doing so - the reality of God becomes rational through His gift of faith. Jesus and his gospel are a paradox - you lose yourself to find yourself. You do the irrational to discover what is truly rational. Once you hear the simple gospel - Jesus died as a pure atoning sacrifice for our sins and once and for all made our pathway to God clear---but that is just the start. Our life is a journey towards God and in that journey we encounter graces (unmerited favor) such as peace when you have cancer, joy in the midst of pain and suffering and direction when we face challenging crossroads. It means consolation in the darkest of days and freedom from fear and anxiety in the brightest of days. I, like Lily and Ellie would be honored to visit with you more and share how my journey of faith has grown from a 10 year old little girl who didn't want to go to Hell to a woman of nearly 60 who has experienced many heartaches and challenges but have counted it all as joy and great gain! Your relationship grows through nurturing it -just like relationships with humans. God doesn't impose himself upon you- He waits longingly for intimacy with us - but we must seek to build that relationship and it is not based upon feelings - but faith.
DeleteThanks for the polite message, Ellie, but my point in asking you how you found out about god was made precisely in your answer—a PERSON told you about the concept. You did not experience god firsthand. God did not tell you about god.
DeleteYes, I know all about good ol Faith, but I’m just not interested in that. I am interested in what I can sense with the five senses and living a good life for a good life’s sake, not to please some god. I believe that the Bible served a purpose when it was written, but I absolutely do not believe it is a true account whatsoever. (I don’t need any more information about Christians—I have graduate work in theology and have decided long ago that atheism/humanism works well for me and makes sense.)
I absolutely do not believe in a “creator of the universe.” No explanation needed.
The most wonderful relationships I have are with my children and husband—and also with humanity as I try to help those around me who need it more than I do. I am very happy this way, as are a growing number of humanists and atheists in this country. In fact, I’m happy to report that Christianity has never been more unpopular in this country, and I’m sure you know the reasons why.
Your opinion about god is certainly valid, but other people are just as entitled to their own opinions and ways of life and certainly don’t need to have your opinion foisted upon them. (Proselytizing is one of the more bizarre aspects of evangelical Christianity.). You want to live as a Christian? Great! Worry about yourself.
Every single person has the right to live how they want to live. Indoctrination vis a vis the Duggars, etc., is so tragic—the children never get to explore other ways of living TO DECIDE IF CHRISTIANITY IS RIGHT FOR THEM. Don’t you believe that, in this free country, each person should have ACCURATE information and be allowed to choose their own belief system, Ellie?
It is a little bizarre to say that the most wonderful relationship you can have is one with a concept which cannot be proven to exist. But, if it makes you happy, great. Just as being an atheist and Ethical Humanist makes me happy.
Please take care and thank you for the message.
9:42 Your story broke my heart. I am sending you positive vibes and hoping the best for you. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.
DeleteKitKath- I happen to agree wholeheartedly! Thank you for expressing your views so well. I'm glad that it was posted.
Delete@9:13- Ellie and Lillie are only offering up their own opinions and personal religious beliefs. They are not based on absolute truths, any more than any other belief system that's based on an invisible entitiy with no proof of existence.
Delete1:17, nowhere does the Bible teach that Christians are absolved of doing right after the point of salvation. The New Testament is full of exhortations to do right after salvation, through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. He gives the power and the motivation to do way more than we think we can or want to do. Christians have to cooperate with the Holy Spirit, though. When they don't, you get the churches that turn people off of Christianity.
DeleteKitKath, your theories may be valid if there really is no god, but what if there IS? Your non-belief would not make Him untrue. Don't tell me you really believe all of nature was an accident. I don't believe that deep down any true scientist can say that. There's too many holes. Maybe God is trying to reach out to YOU through this post! It was interesting to me that Lily and Ellie wrote to you although they hardly ever write personally on these blogs. Ask God to show Himself to you if He is real.
Delete9:42 I was also sad to read your post. I thought of this:
Delete(The Footprints Prayer)
One night I had a dream…
I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord, and
Across the sky flashed scenes from my life. For each scene I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand; One belonged to me, and the other to the Lord. When the last scene of my life flashed before us, I looked back at the footprints in the sand. I noticed that many times along the path of my life, There was only one set of footprints.
I also noticed that it happened at the very lowest
and saddest times in my life
This really bothered me, and I questioned the Lord about it.
“Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you,
You would walk with me all the way;
But I have noticed that during the
most troublesome times in my life,
There is only one set of footprints.
I don’t understand why in times when I
needed you the most, you should leave me.
The Lord replied, “My precious, precious
child. I love you, and I would never,
never leave you during your times of
trial and suffering.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I carried you.
Another saying that a pastor of mine used to say is: "Feelings come and feelings go and feelings are deceiving. My warrant is the Word of God, none else is worth believing."
Saying I'm a sinner and need Jesus to save me and I can't do anything about it- that's complete faith in Him and it is what God is looking for. I don't always have the great feelings, but because of what the Bible says I KNOW God has saved me and I want to give back to Him for the gift He already gave me by doing good. By reading God's Word I have a better relationship with Him. I would really encourage you to give yourself wholly to God and trust in His death ALONE to save you, telling Him that no matter how you feel you are going to stick with Him and read His words.
7:34, wow. Lol.
DeleteFirstly, religious believers have the burden of proof here. You’re claiming there’s a god who created literally everything. You don’t think nature being a happy accident—an accident which has a very reasonable theory of creation, the Big Bang—is more believable? Who told you about god? God? Or human beings?
The absence of a belief in god doesn’t mean I have no hope or no faith—I just don’t believe in god.
And lily and Ellie addressing me isn’t some divine miracle (lol)—they’re proselytizing. I’d LOVE to proselytize for atheism but what I believe is useful for ME—I don’t try to foist my beliefs on others.
I’d ask you the same thing—ask god to show himself to you if “he’s” real. You don’t see the irony in asking me this? While you’re waiting for that, I’ll be happily living my life as an atheist and humanist. We don’t need to believe in god to be good people with hope and faith in humanity.
@7:34 If there are "holes" in science it's because we haven't found conclusive proof for something yet, but give us time - we will! We're unlocking new evidence all the time, and proving that older evidence and theories still stand. For instance, if you mix the chemicals present in the early atmosphere of Earth and add heat and electricity (lightning), you will soon easily produce organic compounds and amino acids, the building blocks of life forms. This was a famous experiment almost 100 years ago. Yes, scientists have proven that you can produce the compounds needed for life "by accident," or rather by naturally occurring processes. Evolution has too much evidence to dismiss. The geology of Earth holds the answers. Physics, chemistry, and biology hold the answers. I believe in those and their laboratory or field findings more than I believe in a book of stories with multiple translations and strong human political power ties.
DeleteKitKath, this is 7:34. No, not a divine miracle, just a way that God is quietly trying to get your attention. I'm sure He is going to keep on too! I'm going to pray for you.
DeleteThe Bible claims to have been inspired by God through 66 men who wrote down His words. Actually it is hugely miraculous that a book written by 66 people hangs together so well and has been proven to be true over and over again by archaeology, history, science, etc. And yes, you can actually explain creation scientifically, such as many fossils being formed by a huge world catastrophe - the world-wide flood of the Bible. In fact, many prominent scientists believe the Bible to be 100 percent accurate.
Sorry, I meant 66 books (written by 40 different people).
Delete@12:24 Actually I was surprised to hear you say that, because science often proves its previous theories to be false! And with holes, I didn’t mean a few pieces of missing evidence, but huge gaps. As well as creation evidences that are even purposefully hidden or ignored. Nobody wants to believe in God because they don’t want to be accountable to Him.
DeleteA few examples: several examples of living tissue in dinosaur bones that scientists don’t even want to try to explain, the evolutionary idea that mutations (mistakes) would actually create new DNA, where DNA comes from in the first place, the millions of transitional fossils that are missing, how reproduction got started, how atoms are held together when they should actually fly apart, how the earth landed exactly the right distance from the sun for us to be able to survive, micro-evolution (natural selection) being blindly taught as macro-evolution, etc.
By the way, no one was there to get chemicals from the early atmosphere. Even if this was true, where did the chemicals, heat, and lightening come from? No one and nothing but God can make something out of nothing. Here’s a couple names of scientists who believe in young-earth creationism. It’s science, and it’s legit! Geology – Dr. Andrew Snelling, Physics – Dr. Jim Mason, Molecular geneticist – Dr. Georgia Purdom, Biology – Dr. Arthur Jones, etc. Just a few. There are scientists on both sides. They just draw different conclusions to what they observe. Don’t believe everything you read in a textbook.
Oh jeez. Your post is absolutely ludicrous. I can’t believe you’re actually claiming that this is proof of something. It’s proof of nothing at all.
DeletePlease, please do not pray for me. Notice how “Praying for” someone has become a snarky comeback? Myself and millions of other atheists are happy as heck—we’ve considered our options and have chosen the best path FOR US. You’re welcome to live the way you want—don’t foist your opinions on anyone else. Each person controls the way they choose to live, unless they’re being indoctrinated against their will.
Actually, you know what? I’m going to “pray” for you—send you vibes, that is. I’m going to hope that you realize what a joy it is to be an atheist and ethical humanist and no longer practice Christianity or belief in a god.
Kay- How do you know those 66 men weren't completely delusional or weren't motivated by some ulterior motive for claiming they were inspired by God? They could've been simply some very savvy snake oil salesmen or marketing geniuses of their time. The Bible proves nothing.
DeleteKitKath, I did not in any way mean it as a comeback. I seriously care about you and am praying that you will get to know the truth! What benefit would I get out of it? I would probably never even hear about it if you did. Hey, I've said enough. This isn't what the blog post was about. But I'm still hoping someday to see you in heaven. Life is short.
Delete6:37, just look into it - do a little research. Like I said, it has been proven to be true over and over again. No other book in the world is like it.
DeleteI've chosen to believe that God says who He is through His Word (the Bible). I choose to believe Creation is divinely ordered- a view supported by what is observable about specific animals being very specifically suited to chosen ordered environments and the subsequently ordered food chains of those specific environments necessary for their survival; to what is observable in our bodies being complex, highly ordered "environmental systems"; and observable scientific principles governing our world that chaos (of any kind-environmental disaster, weather-related destruction, societal revolution) never produces order, stability, or security. I'm not sure why others are so angered, threatened by those beliefs when they're free to choose their own. Personally, I know God is real because I've had a few instances where I've known things about people I could not know otherwise (situations and people I've been praying for). I've made split second decisions that resulted in me meeting someone with information I needed (or I had information they needed) that someone might deem coincidental but was far too random to just be coincidence. For instance, I met the 911 dispatcher from 2 counties away who took the call when my missing cousin was found because I was returning an item gifted to us in a grocery store I hadn't been in for months and deciding I didn't have to shop but spur of the moment deciding to take a quick run through the store. I didn't know he was an EMT; I mistook him for a worker and thanked him for his efforts. LOL In the course of the conversation, I provided him with information he needed about my cousin and he provided me with valuable insight. Believe what you will, I just know what my personal experiences have been.
DeleteI have never done a podcast. I tried this one and there is no video just sound. Is that normal?
ReplyDeleteYes its like listening to the radio ! :)
DeleteDoes this Pod thing come with instructions or links? Some of us are not familiar with them. They should make it easy for people to find or do if they want more peop!e to try it out.
ReplyDeleteHmmmm, Jeremy is about the same age that Jesus was...
ReplyDeleteSo are a gazzilion other people. What’s your point?
Delete@8:13, what’s your point?
DeleteYou’re too funny 😂
DeleteHe has the beard. Has he started wearing sandals?
DeleteLOL Maybe his podcast will have 12 devoted followers.
DeleteA preacher is like a car dealer, selling us something we think we need. lol
ReplyDeleteAnyone who sells anything does that. Some preachers are selling something, but the good ones are sharing something.
DeleteIt shouldn't be that way. A preacher is supposed to help interpret the Bible. Now there are many things that are crystal clear that many Christians dont want to believe but it's in there! (Ex. Homosexuality)
DeleteAt what point does a preacher go from someone who delivers a sermon each Sunday and takes care of his church family to someone running a big for-profit business? Jeremy seems as if he wants to become a business. I can certainly see how that doesn't sit well with those who are used to the more traditional pastoral role. I can see how a profit motive could be questioned.
ReplyDeleteI don't think religion and business mix well at all. If you want to run your church like a business, if your pastor wants TV megachurch fame, if he/she wants to endorse products, then pay taxes like a business.
DeleteI really don't see Jeremy as someone seeking to run a profitable business. I think he wants to support his family in modest comfort and is trying to do something that will make that possible. Small churches can't afford to pay a large salary to a pastor and usually the wife works outside the home to help pay the bills. Jinger is a Duggar so she won't do that. The TV show isn't going to last forever so I see Jeremy doing what he thinks is necessary to provide for his family.
DeleteI'm curious how you make a profit from pod casting on a free app. Not being snarky, just curious.
DeleteYou make money from a podcast by the number of people who listen and subscribe. The more you have, the more attention you get from companies who give you free stuff or pay for advertising on your social media.
DeleteThey'll eventually make money but they had to pay their production company $600 to launch the podcast and $150 - $250 per episode to edit.
DeleteEllie: I am the person you "reached out" to. You entirely missed my point. I didn't need a sermon on what Christians are supposed to believe. My statement was that I didn't want to attend churches because of the experiences I'd had in them. If you can't reach out to those in your church who you are repeatedly told are your "family" for emotional and social support during a trial without running the social gauntlet of "whose fault is the problem" and if it's determined it's not your fault, what if any support you're entitled to you're wasting your time in the church. Going on and on about what God doesn't change the social dynamics of churches nor does it ensure everyone in the church is treated the same by the congregation.
ReplyDeleteI apologize if I missed your point. I truly was heartbroken to hear that you have had such bad experiences at church. From this description, it sounds like the church(es) you attended were definitely teaching the prosperity gospel, which is completely unbiblical. I really think that if you found a church that teaches the Bible, you would have a much better experience. I would be honored to help you find such a church. Since most churches state their beliefs on their website, it's not too difficult to find one that teaches the Bible, not man's interpretation of the Bible. Please let me know if I can be of more assistance. :)
DeleteEllie
Ellie: With all due respect, how many churches should I have to attend to find the church you describe? What churches say on their website and what actually happens in the church is NOT the same thing. I know you mean well, but I'm burned out with churches and am NOT going to keep bugging my head against that wall any longer.
DeleteEllie- There isn't a church on the planet that doesn't interpret the Bible in their own way. Every one of them claims their doctrine is based on truth that all others lack. Whatever understanding anyone thinks they have of the scriptures is based on either their own interpretations of it or someone elses.
DeleteBut Ellie, isn’t IBLP kind of like Prosperity Gospel, in a way? Twisting and turning the Bible—and we all know KJV manipulates things on occasion—to fit a particular narrative isn’t ethical.
DeleteDon’t you adhere to IBLP?
Ellie. I think you're being a bit heavy handed here. If someone has had bad experiences and has opted out of attending church it's a legitimate choice. I'm not on board with putting pressure on people to attend church because you've had good experiences there.
Delete@11:48- I retreated from organized religion a very long time ago for some of the very same reason you give. Personally, I know of very few people who are very happy with their own church- all they do is complain about the politics of it. I do have a good support sytem with friends and family and religion is not a part of the equation. One does not have to be a church-goer or even believe in a higher power in order to be happy and a good person. You have to do what's right for you and don't let other people try to convince you otherwise.
Deletewow jeez leave her alone she's only doing what jesus instructed us to: share the gospel and be deciples. Ellie's not pressuring him/her she i just trying to reach out and help the person. back off.
Delete7:35, I think she was just trying to be encouraging that not every church is like that. With moving a lot for my husband's job, we've been in a fair amount of churches and seen great things and not-so-great things. Our church right now is pretty awesome, and we are thriving with our church family. If we had given up based on some discouraging things we saw in the previous church, we would have missed out on many great blessings.
DeleteI responded earlier to the poster experiencing Church burn-out. I hear and understand what you're saying (been there). Generally speaking, when well-meaning people "promote" their Church it's because they've had good experiences there and love their Church. The reality is that Christians don't become instantaneously "good people" when they accept Jesus and His sacrifice on the Cross. Accepting Jesus is what makes a person a Christian, not attending any Church. A Christian gets a new nature (love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, patience, faithfulness, and self-control), but they need to break old habits and choose to act on their new nature (this step takes time and practice and they're known as "Baby Christians" because we all start out as babies). Some don't really want to put in that much time or effort, so they still do the same old sins (known as carnal Christians, they'd rather keep feeding the old nature). Honest, sincere Christians (Christ-followers) are grieved when they sin- whether it's because they chose to (like not closing your mouth when you know you're close to losing your temper) or accidentally hurting someone's feelings (a misunderstanding or miscommunication). The longer someone is a Christ-follower, the less he/she will sin because they become unwilling to grieve God or hurt other people. So, Churches have a mix of people-some are people who haven't met Jesus, some are religious (trying to do good things to make up for the bad/wrong things we all have done), some are their because someone is making them come, some are carnal Christians, some are baby Christians, and some are the more mature Christ-followers. Some Churches teach the Bible and some teach a person's interpretation of the Bible (usually only the parts the person likes or agrees with or that won't offend too many people). Some Churches tell amusing anecdotes with a little Bible sprinkled on top, so people can leave feeling good. Some Churches, unfortunately, are pretty clique-y (like the people are stuck in middle or high school). Some Churches have pastors that act like they're God and they're never wrong. When you read through the New Testament though, you see in Paul's letters to the Churches that he was dealing with sinful human beings doing wrong things, religious people, imperfect human beings, ego-tripping leaders, carnal Christians, baby Christians, and Christ-followers. You're always going to have people that are there for the right reasons and people who are there for the wrong reasons. Because we've had our trust broken, we're exercising wisdom (listening, looking, watching, researching what's being taught, who's doing the teaching, what's the culture/temperature of the Church, what do their members'/leaders' social media accounts tell me about their own priorities, etc.). Just my thoughts and our experience.
DeleteHey Ellie, I want you to know that I appreciate all your comments here. I see there have been some difficult discussions happening, and this has not gone unnoticed. I admire you for your courage in representing Jesus Christ in all of this. I want to thank you on behalf of all of us Sisters and Brothers in Christ. We support you. May God richly bless you both as you continue His work🙏🏻❤️
DeleteKitKath@12:14 Part of IBLP's core doctrine is the success principle, which says that when people learn to think God's thoughts by meditating on and memorizing scripture, they make wise decisions and fulfill their life purpose. This sounds like prosperity teaching to me. I don't know if Ellie follows Bill Gothard's teachings or not, but the Duggars have had a long association through the Big Sandy conferences. I couldn't agree more with your statesment about manipulation of scriptures to fit a narrative. That's why there are countless non-denominational and "independent" offshoots of mainline religions. It's impossible to get everyone to agree in lockstep about the Bible. IMO, it's a case of the blind leading the blind, except all the leaders are throroughly convinced that they're the only ones who can see. It doesn't matter to me if people follow a certain religious path. However, they have my respect if they also follow what Mark Twain thought was sadly omitted from the Bible:
Delete"Ye shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is. Not merely tolerant of it, but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code." Twain was a very wise man.
@4:47 June 16- If you truly believe it's your Christian duty to proselytize and try to save souls, then you should be willing accept the blowback and not-so-positive responses you're bound to encounter. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Perhaps it is the evangelicals who need to "back off" and leave people alone.
DeleteI'll throw my two cents into the discussion. I think it's wrong to urge someone who has made it clear that the church environment doesn't work for them to "find the right church" or the "keep trying". Not everyone meshes well with the church experience and therefore we should respect their decision. People can find their own pathway in life. I don't long dissertations on what Christianity means very productive as we all have our own way of connecting to God.
Delete@KithKath YES to everything you said and may I add that people should NOT use THEIR religious beliefs to try to dictate LAW OF THE LAND for OTHERS! That oversteps every boundary. The Duggars are famous for doing this, as are many other Evangelicals. Keep YOUR religion out of MY and OTHERS' politics! This is a democracy, not a theocracy.
DeleteAnon 9:01. I don't mean to be unkind, but if someone is "burned out" I don't see how presenting them with a "wall of text" is going to mend matters. I'm NOT burned out but I quit reading about a quarter of the way through your post.
DeleteEllie, I respect your trying to help this person. You did a fine job, and I will pray for the person.
DeleteI am encouraged to find kindred spirits here, speaking up about their feelings regarding spirituality and God. I appreciate that this dialogue has been posted and I'd like to add something: As a senior citizen, I've come to view religion/God as like a placebo a doctor would give. Although the pill has nothing more than sugar in it, the patient feels better because of the powerful psychological effect. So it is with churches. Congregants are convinced to believe in an invisible higher power- that doing so will ensure blessings, salvation, and escape from eternal torture. For many, this does give them a sense of self-satisfaction and purpose, that they're somehow special and their path of righteousness is the antedote to dispair and suffering. They take comfort in believing God will always be there to look out for them. I guess that's the sugar in the pill doing its job. I've always thought that there's no harm in being a "believer". It's a matter of whatever gets you through this life, different strokes, etc. I do have a problem with church hierarchies taking advantage of people through their pocketbooks. I also take issue with evangelicals. Their mistaken idea that they must save souls by dispensing the "placebo" just rubs me the wrong way. Whatever religious construct plays a role in your life is not something that needs to be pushed onto others. For many of us, the Bible is just a book, filled with stories and myths reflective of their time and culture. Human beings have always tried to find answers to the unanswerable and unknowable. In doing so, they make it up as they go along and try to sell it as Truth. The hardest part of living, IMO, is being able to accept and live with uncertainty. We understandably have a very hard time with that.
DeleteAll we need to be saved is the Bible. If you don't want to go to a church, and don't like various "interpretations" of what the Bible says, read the Bible for yourself. If you want to find a church, which if you are a Christian you should,find one that focuses on the Bible, not on entertainment or money.
DeleteHi! I'm a Christian who has also gone to a church who claimed to treat us like family but then turned their back on us when we didnt agree with what was being taught. My husband was a theology for many years and thankfully is able to pick out these apostate churches. These churches cherry pick the gospel to make it suit their agenda, not teach what it really is saying
DeleteI agree with O.P. you do need to be careful and research churches you visit. My husband and I have visited many who were "feel good' type churches. You dont go to feel good.
You go to learn and how you apply your life to what the gospel is saying. I wish you blessings and I hope you don't give up on finding a church.
@8:02; I agree- read the Bible for yourself and find a church with beliefs based on the Word of God. However I just wanted to mention that when in your first statement you said all we need to be saved is the Bible, it would actually be all we need to be saved is Jesus🙏🏻♥️
DeleteJune 17 9:50 - Sorry if my comment offended you. I was upset that Ellie was being discouraged and I should have worded it differently. I didn't think it through properly. I hope all is forgiven.
DeleteA placebo doesn't change people's lives completely. A placebo doesn't turn a terrorist into a missionary. A placebo doesn't withstand any test of truth. Don't underestimate the power of the true Word of God!
Delete9:28, you are right! I guess I meant that you don't need to go to a church to be saved and can just read the Bible for yourself to learn anything you need to know. However, God does want us to look for a church family once we belong to Him!
Delete@8:50 If I was going to a church that didn’t make me feel good about it, I’d part company very quickly. I have never found one that did. They are all selling snake oil.
Delete7:34. People change for the better because they want to change. There’s no hocus pocus involved.
DeleteA terrorist turned into a missionary? Hello! I saw that musical on Broadway, twice.
DeleteAnon 9:01. After reading through your comment, I do have a question regarding your statement "the longer someone is a Christian the less he/she will sin". I was wondering if a person has been a Christian for 10 years does that mean they sin half as much as a person who has been a Christian for 5 years? Also how long does one need to be a Christian to stop sinning completely? (Personally, I've never seen that sort of thing happen, but perhaps you know more than I do about how it works).
DeleteChristians are not perfect or sin free; they strive to be sin free. When you read the Bible you'll find that gossip is a sin just as is adultery and murder. What Christians have is the belief That Christ died for their sins. Ask for forgiveness of sin and it is freely given. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a theologian during the 2nd world war. He became involved in the plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler because of the evil he perpetuated. Christians believe in faith, not proof. This is one of my favorite Bonhoeffer quotes: “A God who let us prove his existence would be an idol". Christ never promised us a carefree life. He said as Christians we are to pick up our cross(es) and follow Him. Each of us have our own "cross" to carry....and it is not a bag of "gold".
DeleteAnonymous @ 8:24-I'm Anonymous @9:01 and I said "The longer someone is a Christ-follower, the less he/she will sin because they become unwilling to grieve God or hurt other people." Many people identify themselves as a Christian because they go to Church or they were raised in a church-going family. Christian means Christ-follower. The more I read God's Word, I come across verses like "Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ." (Philippians 1:27). So, that means when I'm mad at my spouse/my teenager/the crazy driver who nearly hit me, I'm going to remember that verse and it's going to determine my response (not how I feel in the moment). It's the knowledge that I have done wrong things and I've hurt/damaged other people in doing those wrong things. I have been less than God's nature (perfect, loving, fair, just, unselfish, etc.). I didn't deserve mercy or grace, but God showed me both and Jesus took what I actually deserved. So, going forward, when I am wronged, those people "don't deserve mercy and grace" either, but I'm going to give it because God gave it to me. God doesn't lie, steal, cheat, envy, or covet. If I love Him, I'm not going to practice those things either. Loving my neighbor means I need to obey the speed limit when I'm traveling through his neighborhood (so I don't hit his children, his pets, his car, etc.). It means I choose to control my temper instead of spewing- I can't put a human being back together emotionally after I've torn him down. That's what I mean. When God says in His Word not to do something, I've got a better picture why now than I did when I first started following God. We all will follow someone or something, whether that's God, the culture, or ourselves.
DeleteAmen 8:02 pm..... too many churches are in to it for entertainment ...churches need to get back to Bible preaching.... not their interpretation of what the Bible says.... but the actual word of God. Also, not feel good everything is beautiful.... the older I’m getting I’m praying harder for this generation.... missing the old hymns and gospel 😍
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